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TOPIC: Element Hull Holding Water

Element Hull Holding Water 16 May 2014 18:54 #1

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Greetings fellow boaters! I'm hoping someone can help me out and that I've posted this in the appropriate topic category.
I just purchased a 2014 Element last month and have a concern. Yesterday, I installed Smart Tabs and noticed water running out of the holes I drilled on the port side transom.
I've emailed Customer Support and am awaiting a response but was curious if anyone else had a similar issue.
It seems that the shape of this "M Hull" will not allow for water to run from the outer portion into the bilge and out of the boat.
I'm fairly certain the water was from me washing out the boat but don't have any idea how it found it's way into that part of the hull.
There is certainly no way for it to drain out....
There is a solid floor, glassed in over that portion of the hull.
Has anyone else found this? If so, is there a remedy?
Mike

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Element Hull Holding Water 16 May 2014 18:59 #2

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Welcome on board and congratulations to the new boat! I hope some of the Element owners will be able to help you out. Make sure you let the holes you drilled dry out before you install the tabs.
I would have assumed that this portion of the hull would be filled with closed cell flotation foam to prevent just such a problem.......

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Element Hull Holding Water 16 May 2014 19:51 #3

  • Waking Memories
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with how new the element is and how few have probably drilled into their hull, I doubt there will be much feedback. I have a 2012 185 and had streams of water coming out when I installed my fish finder temp sensor on my transom. Multiple issues were found that were needed to be corrected. I am happy to report that mine is all dry now. Although our hulls are different, I Will let you know what me and my dealer found that was allowing water in to the sealed portions of my transom.

1.) Hull seam where the deck was joined to my hull had gaping holes in the corners where the factory did not seal correctly. Could not be seen until we removed the rub rail BUT when in the water and put it in reverse and allowed water to hit the area, it was streaming in at the corners.
2.) Not enough sealant on the holes for the support bars on the swim platform where they mounted to the transom.
3.) Almost zero sealant on drain plug flange. When I put the stern of the boat in the water on the trailer, I could see water trickling in from the drain plug area. This was allowing water to weep into the transom as well.

After the dealer addressed all of the above under warranty, against Bayliners advise, I installed brass drain plugs on each side of the transom. This allows me to take the plug out to be sure there is no water. With the area sealed, one would have zero idea it was happening until a hole was drilled or the transom rots eventually.

Be thankful you found the problem as I would guess that this is very common and is not found until you drill a hole back there!

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2012 185 4.3l

Element Hull Holding Water 17 May 2014 00:25 #4

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mhardman wrote: Greetings fellow boaters! I'm hoping someone can help me out and that I've posted this in the appropriate topic category.
I just purchased a 2014 Element last month and have a concern. Yesterday, I installed Smart Tabs and noticed water running out of the holes I drilled on the port side transom.
I've emailed Customer Support and am awaiting a response but was curious if anyone else had a similar issue.
It seems that the shape of this "M Hull" will not allow for water to run from the outer portion into the bilge and out of the boat.
I'm fairly certain the water was from me washing out the boat but don't have any idea how it found it's way into that part of the hull.
There is certainly no way for it to drain out....
There is a solid floor, glassed in over that portion of the hull.
Has anyone else found this? If so, is there a remedy?
Mike


Are you saying:
The water is puddling inside the boat and drained out thru the holes you drilled. Because the drill went all the way thru the transom to where water was standing.
or
When you penetrated the transom it had water inside it which drained out.

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Element Hull Holding Water 20 May 2014 00:47 #5

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Are these issues with the hull atypical? I've looked at 5-10 different used boats, but I keep coming back to either a 180 or element b/c I'd like to own something new for once. However, these issues are making me reconsider that process.

I owned a Ranger bass boat for many years, but the family wants a bowrider to keep at the cottage.

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Element Hull Holding Water 20 May 2014 04:09 #6

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Scupper valves is an option though that would scare me, unless it's above the water line.

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Current:
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Element Hull Holding Water 20 May 2014 16:34 #7

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Hi all, Thanks for the replies. The water was in a portion of the hull where it can't drain to the bilge. And yes, I drilled through to the puddle. I did let it dry out before mounting the smart tabs and think I'll put some drains in both sides, just to be on the safe side. I'll be checking under the rub rail for openings as well (good call). I tried to attach a picture. If it worked, you can see the area in question. You'd think when they designed this thing that it would be an obvious place to seal off from ANY water!
All is good for now though and if any of you are thinking about Smart Tabs, it made a dramatic change in how the boat rides!!

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Element Hull Holding Water 20 May 2014 16:44 #8

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I think what I've experienced is not typical at all. A couple issues for sure but nothing too major IMO. I love the boat though but will tell you this....it NEEDS those tabs! I boat in the ICW near Ft. Pierce Fl. and it gets a bit choppy when the wind blows. Any chop at all and this boat would porpoise really bad. As soon as you got on plane and trimmed the motor up even the smallest amount, it would start. The only way to avoid the porpoising was to run with the motor trimmed all the way down. The Smart Tabs fixed all of that and improved the idle speed "wandering". I'm a believer. Best $130 I've ever spent on any boat.

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Element Hull Holding Water 20 May 2014 16:52 #9

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Get it to your dealer and file a claim. Rot of the transom later without a claim of what you found and they will be blaming it on the holes you drilled for the smart tabs

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2012 185 4.3l

Element Hull Holding Water 20 May 2014 16:58 #10

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Already done, and emailed Bayliner about it too. I'm with you on that! They responded btw and assured me there is no wood in the transom of the Element so I'm feeling a little better about that at least.

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Element Hull Holding Water 23 Sep 2014 01:46 #11

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Bayliner told you elements boat have no wood on transom? I was told today by a tecnician that called bayliner that there is wood on transom and stringers
Now, those outter shims getting water and rotten foam and wood and fiberglass scare me bad

Please advise how you solve the problem
And if you have pictures

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Element Hull Holding Water 23 Sep 2014 01:47 #12

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Can you post or send me that email? This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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Element Hull Holding Water 23 Sep 2014 02:20 #13

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I was invited to a Bayliner boat test and factory tour a few years ago. At that time they were using kiln dried pressure treated plywood in their transoms. It was to prevent rot.
I suspect they would still be doing this.
A good question to ask if there is wood in the transom.
Doug

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Element Hull Holding Water 23 Sep 2014 16:54 #14

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I'd Install two garboard drains on each side of the M where water is trapped.
I think I read about this issue on the hull truth.
Maybe search element over there

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Element Hull Holding Water 27 Sep 2014 02:31 #15

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Will it always drain water. Or Is dry after use. Please post picture

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Element Hull Holding Water 16 Jun 2015 22:26 #16

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What tabs did you use?
What ever happend with the water in the hull?

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Element Hull Holding Water 02 May 2016 21:14 #17

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Can you (or anyone else) post a pic with the sponson drains installed? I'd like to install additional transom drains for the sponsons as well and want to see which drains and where you guys are installing them.

You would think that drains in these areas would have been installed from the factory.

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains

Element Hull Holding Water 02 Jun 2016 13:07 #18

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mhardman wrote: Hi all, Thanks for the replies. The water was in a portion of the hull where it can't drain to the bilge. And yes, I drilled through to the puddle. I did let it dry out before mounting the smart tabs and think I'll put some drains in both sides, just to be on the safe side. I'll be checking under the rub rail for openings as well (good call). I tried to attach a picture. If it worked, you can see the area in question. You'd think when they designed this thing that it would be an obvious place to seal off from ANY water!
All is good for now though and if any of you are thinking about Smart Tabs, it made a dramatic change in how the boat rides!!


So, I'm installing my Smart-tabs last night and surprise, surprise, water begins to stream out of the Port-side sponson (similar to mhardman & Kilroy's situation) once I drilled my holes. No water came out on the Starboard-side; probably less water is trapped in that sponson at the moment. This was not much of a surprise (see www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ter-in-sponsons-help ), so I left room on my transom / sponsons for additional drains like the one already installed on the Element 160.

Background: My boat has been in the water ONE time and we were out in moderately calm water (2 foot chop max, which was brief) during the outing.

What you can take away from this post is that if You have an Element 160, which you have taken out in the water, then You too most likely have water in your Element's sponsons that is unlikely to drain out on its own.

I will be installing additional drains in the near future. Thoughts?

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains
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Element Hull Holding Water 02 Jun 2016 13:21 #19

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Definitely a lack of thought on Bayliners behalf. The sponsons should have been sealed off or better yet filled with expanding foam to create an unsinkable hull even if you rip the bottom off. If it were mine I would take it to a place where they do foam insulation and have them shot full. Could get pricey, thinking sub $1000.

Edit: They should have at least installed drain plugs to allow emptying when hauled. Easy modification by the way.
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Element Hull Holding Water 02 Jun 2016 13:47 #20

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dmcb wrote: I was invited to a Bayliner boat test and factory tour a few years ago. At that time they were using kiln dried pressure treated plywood in their transoms. It was to prevent rot.
I suspect they would still be doing this.
A good question to ask if there is wood in the transom.
Doug


Bayliner is in the process of moving all their boats to wood-free construction, but the Element is not subject to this yet. I suspect the transom is wood, but I cannot tell you exactly what kind. You may well be correct.

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Element Hull Holding Water 02 Jun 2016 15:57 #21

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Download_Complete wrote:

dmcb wrote: I was invited to a Bayliner boat test and factory tour a few years ago. At that time they were using kiln dried pressure treated plywood in their transoms. It was to prevent rot.
I suspect they would still be doing this.
A good question to ask if there is wood in the transom.
Doug


Bayliner is in the process of moving all their boats to wood-free construction, but the Element is not subject to this yet. I suspect the transom is wood, but I cannot tell you exactly what kind. You may well be correct.


Smart move. This is a big plus on the Carvers, no wood in the stringers or below water line transom so no rot possible. Even the floor frame on the larger boats have no wood, all aluminum structure. Only advantage of wood is with the builder as it is dirt cheap in comparison and easy to work with..

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Element Hull Holding Water 02 Jun 2016 16:23 #22

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MidnightSun wrote: Definitely a lack of thought on Bayliners behalf. The sponsons should have been sealed off or better yet filled with expanding foam to create an unsinkable hull even if you rip the bottom off. If it were mine I would take it to a place where they do foam insulation and have them shot full. Could get pricey, thinking sub $1000.

Edit: They should have at least installed drain plugs to allow emptying when hauled. Easy modification by the way.


I believe some owners have already been directed by Bayliner to have an additional drain installed on each sponson. I am currently pursuing this myself. We shall see how things go.

I suspect that Bayliner will do the right thing and help out their customers remedy this issue when it pops up. I'm on board with the installation of additional sponson drains, btw.

I'll keep you guys posted :)
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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains

Element Hull Holding Water 02 Jun 2016 21:58 #23

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How does one know if you have water in the sponsons if they are sealed, short of drilling a hole?

I need to know since I live and store my boat in COLD Canada over the winter. That water will freeze and frozen water expands which may cause unknown damage to the hull.
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Element Hull Holding Water 02 Jun 2016 22:31 #24

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oakplank wrote: How does one know if you have water in the sponsons if they are sealed, short of drilling a hole?

I need to know since I live and store my boat in COLD Canada over the winter. That water will freeze and frozen water expands which may cause unknown damage to the hull.


Oak,

Based on several of your posts, it appears that you have indeed taken your boat for a spin in the water (perhaps, even multiple times, gasp). I've taken mine out once, so I've got some bad newz.......

But seriously, I attempted to tap on the sponsons with a small mallet to see if I could hear a difference going from the top to the bottom (knock, knock, knock, thud; like tapping on a gas tank to see if it has gas in it) before I drilled into the sponson, after reading about this issue. That method told me NOTHING, because the sound never really changed to my ear. So, I started installing my Smart-tabs and I think you know the rest.


Also, thank you for the recommendation on the Attwood 6 gallon tank by the way, it is indeed the perfect auxiliary tank for the Element 160!!!

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains
Last Edit: by TigerBoat.

Element Hull Holding Water 09 Jun 2016 02:40 #25

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Hey Guys,

This is really scary story. how did u fix it? did bayliner warranty covered that? sounds like a problem with all the elements?

Honestly I believe the drain plugs that bayliner suggest to install doesn't make any sense, that area contain the stringers, in Bayliner element, they are wood, not even fiberglass. so that area must be completely sealed. no water should be there!!!

There is no way a water to be there unless there is a problem in the sealing. if I was in your place, I wouldn't give up easily for the suggested work around from bayliner !.

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