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TOPIC: Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556

Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 01:05 #1

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This sort of came up on Larry's thread "my 27' Victoria unplanned project" so I thought I'd start a new thread on it.
My 2556 has a hole in each stringer just aft of the fuel tank bulkhead on both sides about half way up. The hole goes completely through the stringer into the "box" area thats sealed off and they're about 1 1/4" in diameter. I noticed what appeared to be a patch in that area on both sides and thats how I found them. Now I'm thinking, "what has some done here?" So I took my hole saw to it. I was wanting to investigate these " boxes" for any sign of moisture that may be able to leak in there over time anyway and was expecting to run into foam.
Starboard side box was clean and dry as a bone inside, and no foam. The port side box wasn't the same. Not only did a fair amount of water come out when I drilled, but I found concrete in the box, and it appears to have been pumped in there through this 1 1/4" hole or not :unsure:
After reading yachtmans post and Larry's reply, seems these holes are common on BL boats. But what's the deal with the concrete on just the port side? My first thought is BL did it for ballast to help level the boat.
Has anyone ever ran into anything like this before? I'm thinking of opening it up and removing the concrete.



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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
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Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 01:11 #2

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My 2556 has concrete in the same area. I would not remove it as it is probably there to balance out the boat.

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1990 2556
7.4 mercruiser Bravo 2 drive
Marysville Wa

Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 01:16 #3

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That's what I was thinking, but looking at the waterline on the exterior of my boat tells me the boat sits lower in the water on the port side.
What year is your 2556?

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 01:24 #4

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My 2556 is a 1990 with a mercruiser 7.4 Bravo 2 drive. My boat sits level in the water but the concrete might be for a leaning issue while on a plane.

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1990 2556
7.4 mercruiser Bravo 2 drive
Marysville Wa

Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 02:25 #5

  • LRCX 2750
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What I'd be more concerned with Dave is just how the water got in there, how long it's been there and how much damage/rot it's done. The ballast can always be added back in if you have to replace the box.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 02:42 #6

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LRCX 2750 wrote: What I'd be more concerned with Dave is just how the water got in there, how long it's been there and how much damage/rot it's done. The ballast can always be added back in if you have to replace the box.

My thoughts exactly, Larry, I concur. The only reason I probed in the first place was to make sure things were dry. She's good on the starboard side but not the port. I think water has been getting in there from the lack of the ventilator box on on that side. I'm sure there was supposed to be some kind of diverted box on the interior but there is no evidence that there ever was one. So in comes the rain water and salt water spray and finds its way through dozens of screws on top of the box used for holding down batteries and all the other stuff that's mounted on that side. Even though my stringer is damp, it is hard. So I'll cut some areas open and get things dry again and take care of the ventilator stuff as well.
Should be a piece of cake compared to the things you've been doing.

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 02:47 #7

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Back in the day, the Bays were rolling over backwards due to top heavy designs. The solution was to ballast the hull to try and stop the roll overs. I guess you guys got one of the hull types that were involved. I saw one roll over in front of me years ago. That sucked for that guy. It was a flybridge Bayliner but I don't remember the length. It sunk in 9 feet of water 100 yards after leaving the pier.

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Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 03:01 #8

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Not makin me feel warm and fuzzy four pyrates :woohoo:
I'm guessing that was long before the 90's?

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
Last Edit: by builderdude.

Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 03:17 #9

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Ha !!! So those holes are just concrete installation holes? :ohmy:

I had nothing inside my compartments but I'm going to be putting inspection plates in all or making them storage areas.

I still want to know what those holes are for or called.

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1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge twin 454's

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Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 03:39 #10

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yachtman wrote: Ha !!! So those holes are just concrete installation holes? :ohmy:

I had nothing inside my compartments but I'm going to be putting inspection plates in all or making them storage areas.

I still want to know what those holes are for or called.

Let's call em small inspection holes :woohoo:

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 04:19 #11

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This doesn't make sense. Concrete flows fairly easy into corners when it's mixed wet enough to flow into a hole as small as they drilled. I still don't get the holes in the SIDE of a stringer or bulkhead. If they were to transfer water from one compartment to another, why are some of the examples sealed with fiber glassed plugs and some not. AND why wouldn't they seal the wood at the very least knowing they were to transfer WATER over dry unprotected wood.

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Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 04:36 #12

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LRCX 2750 wrote: This doesn't make sense. Concrete flows fairly easy into corners when it's mixed wet enough to flow into a hole as small as they drilled. I still don't get the holes in the SIDE of a stringer or bulkhead. If they were to transfer water from one compartment to another, why are some of the examples sealed with fiber glassed plugs and some not. AND why wouldn't they seal the wood at the very least knowing they were to transfer WATER over dry unprotected wood.


So the question to ask is...... when replacing a stringer that has those holes in it should the holes also be placed in the new stringer?

Honestly none of my other boats had those holes that I can remember but then I wasn't really looking. I'm inclined to not put them back in but they may have a purpose to what I don't know.

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1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge twin 454's

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hull#23

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop hull#24
Twin chevy 350's
Last Edit: by yachtman.

Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 04:38 #13

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builderdude wrote: Not makin me feel warm and fuzzy four pyrates :woohoo:
I'm guessing that was long before the 90's?


The boat I saw roll over was in the late 80s or right at 90. I don't know the models, but using concrete for ballast is one cheap arse way to do it. Some of the junk sailboats did this too. If you need to ballast a boat, use lead billets and glass them in. Problem solved. Check those concrete billets. It seems to me that the answer was to put 200 pounds in the hull to fix it. There should be a list of hull types at the CG that required the fix.

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Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 05:00 #14

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Things that make ya go Hmmmmmm?
Top heavy boat? Add some mud in the box. But only on one side?
I'd love to hear more.

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
Last Edit: by builderdude.

Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 05:11 #15

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LRCX 2750 wrote: This doesn't make sense. Concrete flows fairly easy into corners when it's mixed wet enough to flow into a hole as small as they drilled. I still don't get the holes in the SIDE of a stringer or bulkhead. If they were to transfer water from one compartment to another, why are some of the examples sealed with fiber glassed plugs and some not. AND why wouldn't they seal the wood at the very least knowing they were to transfer WATER over dry unprotected wood.

Good question, maybe these holes were original from BL, who knows why. Boat owners and boat repair guys discovered these hole were not the best idea. So an original virgin boat that had work done by a boat yard or other would maybe address the issue and fill or cover over the holes? However mine appeared to be glass over and spattered with black speckle just like the factory did it. My guess is that all this was done by BL and some plants just didn't fill or cover the holes. Lame quality control.
Just a guess :S

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
Last Edit: by builderdude.

Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 12:31 #16

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My two cents.

Adding weight to correct a list is rather counter-productive and counter-intuitive.
Rather than adding weight, I'd sooner see what existing weight (batteries, WH, holding tank, etc.) could be shifted or relocated as to help with the issue.


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Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 15:13 #17

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Boat builders have been using concrete for a lot longer than Bayliners have been around, and it is still common.
Do a Google search. I do think it is interesting that another user's boat had uncast concrete still in the bag for ballast behind the fridge. I'm guessing that wasn't Bayliner that put it there (maybe? :)
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Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 16:57 #18

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2850Bounty wrote: My two cents.

Adding weight to correct a list is rather counter-productive and counter-intuitive.
Rather than adding weight, I'd sooner see what existing weight (batteries, WH, holding tank, etc.) could be shifted or relocated as to help with the issue.


.

I agree Rick. When I purchased this boat the PO (original owner) had 3 batteries strapped down on the port side box. An outboard kicker bracket bolted to the swim step on the port side. The trim/tilt pump and trim tab pump are also on the port side. Almost forgot about the water heater, 6 gallons at what 8 lbs/ gall. All this plus the guessing of at least 30 lbs of concrete in the box? I'm sure I've discovered why this particular boat sat lower on the port side.
I'm going to open the box to dry thing out and repair any damage I may find. Thought about moving my batteries as well , maybe 1 in engine bay on the port box and 2 house dead center under the "fish well" hatch or even up under the v birth.

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
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'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
Last Edit: by builderdude.

Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 22:16 #19

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My 2556 had the concrete removed and an 8D battery for the house battery installed in its place to make the ballast weight useful.

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Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 22:32 #20

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I've never noticed any signs of this in my 89 2556....But i'll be heading out there tonight to inspect!

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Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 22:52 #21

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We had a standard for port/stbd trim, I forget what it was though......

I do recall one of the plants getting caught putting a bag of concrete in rather than mixing it up.........

We always tried to fix it without using Concrete, but sometimes it wasn't feasible (this applies to the newer boats, mid 90's and earlier who knows.....)

The strength of a stringer is in the top, I'd rather drill a hole in the side (and keep it at least a third of the height from the top) than put holes in the top of a box stringer.

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Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 23:01 #22

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Flyboy III wrote: My 2556 had the concrete removed and an 8D battery for the house battery installed in its place to make the ballast weight useful.

Good to know flyboy, did you ever notice it sitting low on the side that had concrete?
I'll be opening the box soon to remove the "mud" and check for water damage, I hope it won't be to bad.

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
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'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 08 Jan 2014 23:11 #23

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Why would anyone build a boat without enginering in a port to starboard balance, s well as a fore and aft balance?

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Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 09 Jan 2014 00:39 #24

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It isn't just Bayliner that adds cement.
In the 60's while cruising the North Channel we often saw a large aluminum Berger. Can't remember the size but about 70 feet. It was owned by the Chicago Tribune or its owner. The name was Timmy Rash.
They put 2 tons of cement in the bilge of that boat for ballast.
One of my first trips up there I got lost in a fog and ended up about 20 miles from where I wanted to be. I was just looking for a place to toss a hook. I saw this boat at anchor and ask them where we were. It was a pretty bad place to get in and they thought I was joking and gave me a smart arse remark.
I anchored a ways from them and they realized I was serious. The Captain rowed over and showed me where we were. Had a nice visit and followed them the next day to our original destination.
Doug

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Concrete discovered in the box on my 2556 09 Jan 2014 18:19 #25

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Dave. You might think twice about placing your batteries up in the v berth area. You would need massive battery cables to get any amount of power back to the engine area. I'd be much more inclined to relocate whatever you can in the stern area to attain your desired balance. IMO most of the smaller Bayliners are stern heavy. In my 2052 anything of any weight is aft of the boats centerline; crew and passengers, fuel tank, engine, drive, fish and bait lockers, most everything. And then there is a very light front end. I love my boat, but realize that the ergonomics of the design leave a lot to be desired.

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