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TOPIC: My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 04 Apr 2014 04:17 #526

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Finally all the motorcycle carb work was finished early today and allowed me to get back to the glass work. Working from the outer port side I laid up all four layers in the compartment next to the last one I laid up, and then laid the final two layers in the narrow section next to it so the stringer is strengthened with four layers on each side. I know it's confusing, but all this means that I'm finally finished with the forward structure and can move on with decking. It's been a long haul getting to this point, but I'm finally there and am jazzed to be moving on.

Same old type of picture though. More glass laid down and finished.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 04 Apr 2014 23:32 #527

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I'm having trouble deciding what I want to do next now that the glass work is finished up to this point. BUT, I've been contemplating something since following Dave's awesome progress on his project. This question is directed to Fritzman.
OK, we all know epoxy is stronger than the ISO Poly resin I'm using. When I get ready to bond the decking to the stringers and structure, I know I'll need to use some stainless screws to secure it down nice and tight. But I don't want any more screws in the deck than is necessary. Will I be ok using the paste I've been using throughout this project to bond the decking to the structure? Or, should I use epoxy mixed paste for a stronger bond? I'll be using a layer of mat and resin under the decking before it goes down, and the outer edges of the decking will be contacting the resin that I already have laid. Would this cause a problem if I bonded with epoxy?

I'm probably being too anal here and should probably just stick with what I've been doing. But I want the decking to be as strong as possible. Am I over killing things by thinking epoxy?

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 05 Apr 2014 19:14 #528

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B) I need to add great job, you and Dave are laying glass like pros. Where your woking Polyester is fine.

Hi Larry whenever secondary bonding takes place the key is to prep sand areas first part of that is to knock of the little nibs string and so on so that the following layers lay flat, so when you put the deck boards down and the last layer of glass is still wet you are good to go with polyester. You can retard the rate of the cure by dropping the MEKP to 1% and jump on the project in the cool of the mornings. We leave the Epoxy to complicated bonding, Think of the builder using polyester for years, excepting from sloppy workmanship it held. A hull is constructed mostly in one shot secondary bonding takes place later and some time bonding is after the test fit. Nowadays with Vacuum infusion there plastic bags that need to be removed as well as cleanup prior to secondary bonding and a lot of builders have switched to Vinyl ester resins to stop the dreaded osmoses and blisters. Epoxy and I prefer West System are great products and solve many problems and we consume quite a bit of the product, but we look at every job and then pick the resin, well this is longer than intended and I know there will be some detractors, so be it hope this helps. Fritz :P :P

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Last Edit: by fritzman. Reason: adding a line

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 07 Apr 2014 00:25 #529

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Thank you Fritxman, I'll stay with the poly resin for boding the decking.

One more part to this question though. Will using a paste mix be sufficient, or should I use a layer or two of mat between the stringers and decking? The structures surface is perfectly level and will of coarse be sanded smooth as well as being presoaked with thinned resin. Also, the underside of the deck will have a layer of the very thin Surfacing Veil Mat that's 3/4oz to keep the resin from splitting later down the road. I don't think I need more than that to avoid any possible water or condensation from soaking into the decking from underneath.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 07 Apr 2014 01:17 #530

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Another relaxing weekend with my son over, I got in and cut patterns for the decking and transferred it to the 3/4" marine plywood. I have some other items to take care of first before I can consider bonding it down though. So here are a couple more questions for all you experts to guide me in.

OK, first of all I need to buy a new seacock with a through hull fitting for the toilets intake since the old plastic ones lever broke off. I need to decide what material I want the new valve to be made of and am looking for recommendations. Plastic, brass or SS. As you can see below the through hull fitting is fine, but I would suspect over the years it's gotten brittle like the handle did and am not too confident in it. If I go with brass, are the valves I can buy at the home stores sufficient? Or am I better off going with a marine grade company valve? Which one?

In this same area, I have to run new hoses from the valve to the toilet and out through the side gunnel. I didn't like the looks of the clear hoses that I pulled out since it seamed that they easily could kink and restrict the flow. Is there a better choice for the hoses? Automotive water/heater hoses?
Here's the old valve.

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NEXT,
In the decking I need to add an access hatch to get to the seacock and bilge pump for the shower drain. The method used prior was to cut a hole in the deck, add a backing strip under it and set the hatch cover into it with the carpet glued on to conceal the hatch. I'm looking for other alternatives and examples since I don't know all the possibilities that are out there. I know there is an aluminum strip that is used on a lot of hatch compartments, but where do I get it and how easy is it to bend and form to the opening I have? Examples and ideas are welcome here please.
Here's the roughed in decking and the place I need an access hatch/opening.

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Not to add insult to the project, But here is what it looked like when I was taking the boat apart. Where the hatch is, is right next to the entry for the helm and will be somewhat well traveled at times.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 07 Apr 2014 01:43 #531

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Lookin good Larry, soon a nice flat surface to work in :)
The seacock on mine looks to be a simple bronze valve from any hardware store, not sure if it is. It's threaded onto what I believe to be a bronze standard through hull fitting with a bronze strainer over the top. It sticks down off the bottom of the hull about 1/4".I would not go plastic on that one being its below the waterline. Here's what my strainer looks like.

All my hoses were the standard rubber heater hose type and appeared to be in good condition but I'm switching everything over to sanitation type hose. It's mor $ but I think it will last longer than me, and I don't need much.

I'm glad to see your recent progress, nice to see the plywood going in ;)
Here's an article about the sea cocks.
www.boattest.com/resources/view_News.aspx?NewsID=3232

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
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'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 07 Apr 2014 16:22 #532

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Great article. Thank you. I have a seacock that I was going to install for the water supply on a head installation, now I have to question if it is the correct valve.....

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 07 Apr 2014 21:58 #533

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Hi Larry, I prefer mat mixed with putty top and bottom to hold the deck, ore you could mix in short pieces of mat with your putty, we take a chopper and chop ½ inch strand to mix with paste. Problem with putty if to thick and mixed to hot it can crack, the fibers will hold it together, great progress keep it up. Fritzman :P

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 07 Apr 2014 22:53 #534

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:ohmy: Now to a hard headed subject, thru- hulls and there installation, Install a proper thru-hull fitting with strainer from Perko, Jabsco, Groco, Seadog and others, the strainer will have a threaded pipe with a big nut for the inside of the boat, prep a flat plate of quality wood ½ to 1inch thick you could make a plate out of fiberglass, drill you openings to match the thru-hull pipe ( available normally ½ inch to 2 inch ) then for the inside you install a Full-flow flanged ball valve seacock, the flanges have 3 fastening holes so what I due is match all that together and install a SS nut plate fabled up to match the bolt pattern of the full-flow flange, install strainer up, bed with 5200 bed plate down with 5200 install jam nut tight, test fit the valve so that the bolts line up let cure. I then prior to fully installing the valve fiberglass around the outside of the plate, when all is cured install valve hose barb and hose, hose needs to be double clamped, Note the full – flow valve has straight threads so will tighten down. O yes stick bolts ore studs in to the nut plate before you 5200 that all up. Fritz :woohoo: I have seen wood scr. and lag bolts holding the valves in place :woohoo:

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Apr 2014 15:50 #535

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builderdude wrote: Here's an article about the sea cocks.
www.boattest.com/resources/view_News.aspx?NewsID=3232


Thank you Dave, that clears up any questions concerning the choice.
Where did you get the type of hose your using?

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Apr 2014 16:05 #536

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fritzman wrote: Hi Larry, I prefer mat mixed with putty top and bottom to hold the deck, ore you could mix in short pieces of mat with your putty, we take a chopper and chop ½ inch strand to mix with paste. Problem with putty if to thick and mixed to hot it can crack, the fibers will hold it together, great progress keep it up. Fritzman :P


I'm not sure I understand the first part of what your saying. (underlined) Are you putting paste on the stringer, then a strip of mat, then more paste on the underside of the decking?

The stringers and bulkhead tops are all perfectly leveled and flat. When the deck is laid on top there won't be any gaps larger than 1/16" at max. That's why I was wondering if just a layer or 2 of mat would be a better bond than using any paste. Opinion?

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Apr 2014 16:19 #537

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LRCX 2750 wrote:

builderdude wrote: Here's an article about the sea cocks.
www.boattest.com/resources/view_News.aspx?NewsID=3232


Thank you Dave, that clears up any questions concerning the choice.
Where did you get the type of hose your using?

I pick up most of my stuff at Fisheries in Seattle or Harbor marine in Everett. Any marine supply house will have it. Maybe an RV supply might carry it also, not sure.

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Apr 2014 16:23 #538

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fritzman wrote: :ohmy: Now to a hard headed subject, thru- hulls and there installation, Install a proper thru-hull fitting with strainer from Perko, Jabsco, Groco, Seadog and others, the strainer will have a threaded pipe with a big nut for the inside of the boat, prep a flat plate of quality wood ½ to 1inch thick you could make a plate out of fiberglass, drill you openings to match the thru-hull pipe ( available normally ½ inch to 2 inch ) then for the inside you install a Full-flow flanged ball valve seacock, the flanges have 3 fastening holes so what I due is match all that together and install a SS nut plate fabled up to match the bolt pattern of the full-flow flange, install strainer up, bed with 5200 bed plate down with 5200 install jam nut tight, test fit the valve so that the bolts line up let cure. I then prior to fully installing the valve fiberglass around the outside of the plate, when all is cured install valve hose barb and hose, hose needs to be double clamped, Note the full – flow valve has straight threads so will tighten down. O yes stick bolts ore studs in to the nut plate before you 5200 that all up. Fritz :woohoo: I have seen wood scr. and lag bolts holding the valves in place :woohoo:


Fritz, what's the advantage of making a 1/2" spacer bedded in 5200? Wouldn't it be better to build up the glass on the hull that thick instead? Is the block there to level out the surface for the flanged valve to tighten against? If so, I'll make a mine out of glass so it doesn't rot out over the years.

I'm going to try and get to West Marine today to get the valve and through hull.

I'm still looking for suggestions on making the access hatch in the deck.

Spring fever has hit me here with the temps in the 80s this week. So progress has been slow while I work on my yards and do a little weed control. I hope I break this fever soon! :unsure:

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Apr 2014 16:32 #539

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LRCX 2750 wrote:

fritzman wrote: Hi Larry, I prefer mat mixed with putty top and bottom to hold the deck, ore you could mix in short pieces of mat with your putty, we take a chopper and chop ½ inch strand to mix with paste. Problem with putty if to thick and mixed to hot it can crack, the fibers will hold it together, great progress keep it up. Fritzman :P


I'm not sure I understand the first part of what your saying. (underlined) Are you putting paste on the stringer, then a strip of mat, then more paste on the underside of the decking?

The stringers and bulkhead tops are all perfectly leveled and flat. When the deck is laid on top there won't be any gaps larger than 1/16" at max. That's why I was wondering if just a layer or 2 of mat would be a better bond than using any paste. Opinion?

You being a perfectionist, I know your stuff is laser strait, IMO, I think your idea of resin and strips of mat laid up on the top of the stringers/bulkheads would be fine. Then an additional coat of rein on the underside of the decking where it makes contact. Screw it down. Done. Then put boat back together :silly:

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Apr 2014 16:43 #540

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Thanks Dave. I'm thinking the same thing, but I always keep my options open to learn better ways from an expert like Fritz.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Apr 2014 16:52 #541

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OK, I'm a little confused on the seacock setup now that I've looked at a page full of options. The through hulls with a strainer either don't have a strainer like my old one, or the ones that do don't appear to be the same bolt pattern of the 3 holes in a seacock valve. Since the valve installed in the hull previously was obviously not the best way to do it, I guess I'm going to need more clarification on the setup, or at least pictures. :blush:
Here's a page with the options I was looking at. HERE

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Apr 2014 17:50 #542

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Larry, here's another article about the sea clock install. I think it's way overkill the way it was done, should be perfect for you ;) the way I understood this was the through hull fitting threads into the seacock valve.
www.pbase.com/mainecruising/backing_blocks

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
Last Edit: by builderdude.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Apr 2014 21:41 #543

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:evil: To answer questions #1 Go with Thru-Hull strainer that has a threaded pipe going in to the bottom of the hull, the needs with nut my boat has a ¾ inch length of pipe depends on thickness of the hull and block. You can find them in Bronze, Stainless, and Marlon that last one is plastic but approved for Boats. Plastic the least expense, stainless not bad, Bronze bit more. 2# overkill stick you finger in a broken of valve and bail at the same time. Fritz :woohoo:

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Apr 2014 22:56 #544

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Hi once more for today must be long my brain is leaking, Larry you ask about hatches in the floor and shower pump set up. Look at my post from 2-28- 14 2859 Water tank leak & repair solutions. it might help, hope so anyhow . Fritz

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 10 Apr 2014 04:50 #545

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Thanks for the help with the links and advice guys. I still haven't gotten a new seacock yet, but I'll be getting into it soon. I'm going to finish a few things up first.

I've lost the benefit of cool temperatures here now. With the average being low to mid 80s outside, doing the glass work is going to be an early morning or late night activity from now on. I made the small decking filler in the bathroom yesterday and got it soaked with thinned resin. When that cured I bonded it in place using two strips of matting between it and the stringer, then floated in some paste around the edged that were beveled. I got up to late today to finish it up before it got hot inside the boat. By the time I finally got into it the temp in the boat had only dropped to 84. But I was able to feather out the edge with paste and laid two layers of mat over it all without it setting up before I was finished. I had rounded over the edge so I could lay for mat over the edge about 2"s so it was bonded with the glass on the stringer.

Here it's bonded to the hull and ready. You can see the mat sticking out a little from under the edge.

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All laid in nice and smooth.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 10 Apr 2014 11:38 #546

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Lookin' Good.

PS: I'll take some of that 80's weather, still waking up to high 30's here with 60's in the daytime.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 10 Apr 2014 13:52 #547

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Larry, I'm not sure what you meant by;

I'm still looking for suggestions on making the access hatch in the deck.

I sent you a few images that may help you......, if you were asking about a cabin floor hatch.

Edit:
Larry, when are you going to make an Engine selection? I.E., stay with the twin OHC 4's.... or go with a single V-8 ?


.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 10 Apr 2014 14:34 #548

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Looking good as usual Larry, I vote twins on the power plant. You've already got all the stuff, obviously you'll have to rebuild all of it :whistle:
Then again a SBC with a puffer on it might be cool :silly:
PS Ill take some of that weather here as well!

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
Last Edit: by builderdude.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 10 Apr 2014 15:00 #549

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Larry it is looking good , cool today expecting SNOW for Sat. so send some of that 80 stuff.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 10 Apr 2014 17:47 #550

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2850Bounty wrote: Larry, I'm not sure what you meant by;

I'm still looking for suggestions on making the access hatch in the deck.

I sent you a few images that may help you......, if you were asking about a cabin floor hatch.

Edit:
Larry, when are you going to make an Engine selection? I.E., stay with the twin OHC 4's.... or go with a single V-8 ?.


I got the pictures Rick, thank you. Yes I'm going to need a hatch cover in the floor to access the seacock for the toilet as well as being able to get to the bilge pump that will pump out water that's collected if someone takes a shower. I won't need to get in there all the time, so I want the hatch to be covered with carpet instead of a plastic access cover.

I'm going to finish the interior rebuild before I decide on the power. I'm kind of liking the idea of a V8 with the DP drive, but there will be a lot that would have to be purchased for the change over even if I do the marine build with the SBC 350 I already have. Complete cooling and exhaust system, wiring modifications to the existing dual motor wiring, transom shield and out drive, New throttle, shift controls and cables for both helms, new gauge packages for both helms, etc... With that much to focus on, I don't want to side track myself and not get the interior finished.
I also haven't done any of the inspections or a leak down test on either of the 4 cyl. motors I have. If they have excessive leakage past the rings or leaking valves, it will make it easier to decide on doing a single v8 conversion. So you see why I haven't made up my mind yet.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.
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