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TOPIC: My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 26 Mar 2014 00:05 #501

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Well Dave, I guess motivation worked on me at least. I figured since a latex glove fits now, and I already had the mat/biax cut for the next section I'd get back at it earlier than planned. A little prep work and I was ready to get-er-done!

Mat set in place ready for resin. The biax is cut and laying on the side ready to go in after the mat is soaked and rolled.

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Both layers laid in and curing. I also started building up the spot where the toilet inlet valve will go back in with a couple extra layers.
Sorry I've been hit by the sideways gremlin for some reason. :(

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OK Dave, it's your turn to let the motivation bug hit ya! :whistle:

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 26 Mar 2014 02:54 #502

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LRCX 2750 wrote: Well Dave, I guess motivation worked on me at least. I figured since a latex glove fits now, and I already had the mat/biax cut for the next section I'd get back at it earlier than planned. A little prep work and I was ready to get-er-done!

Mat set in place ready for resin. The biax is cut and laying on the side ready to go in after the mat is soaked and rolled.

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Both layers laid in and curing. I also started building up the spot where the toilet inlet valve will go back in with a couple extra layers.
Sorry I've been hit by the sideways gremlin for some reason. :(

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OK Dave, it's your turn to let the motivation bug hit ya! :whistle:

Copy that! I just purchased my materials today from fisheries supply. Going to use West system epoxy for my rebuild. The reason: my transom has been " messed with" before :( so I think it's the safe way to go. Gonna call ya tomorrow, keep your phone close ;)
Yea! Larry's back at it, sweet!

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Dave
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.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 26 Mar 2014 03:59 #503

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It'll be interesting to watch you working with epoxy. It's quit a bit different than working with polyester from what I've read. If I'm not mistaken, you need to get mat and cloth that works with epoxy. Mat/cloth that works with Poly has a special binder that dissolves in polyester resin. If it's used with epoxy it doesn't form as well, not to mention it takes FOREVER for the epoxy to cure. I made that mistake a couple years ago forming a motorcycle cafe seat from a mold I made and it took at least a week for the epoxy to set up hard.
Good to see your getting going again too.

OK, one thing leads to the next. With my comfort using my hand again I made the paper patterns for the next section, cut out the mat/biax and got back to work on the next section. I did screw up though. I should have done the section forward of it first tonight so I could lay this section in after that without messing up the layup while I worked on the forward section. Now I have to wait till this one cures up before I can get in and at least make the paper pattern.

One more step of the 9,999 steps to go.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 26 Mar 2014 04:26 #504

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I've read and researched this also. You are correct, there are some Mats that have a polyester binder in them to hold them together (CSM/biaxial). This binder will dissolve and become part of the layup if your using polyester resin. There are similar mats available that are sewn together and do not have the polyester binder added and so they work with epoxy. These will be the mats that I will use. We will talk tomorrow ;)
and I'd love to hear from others that have experience with this too.
Sorry, not trying to hijack your thread :silly:

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 26 Mar 2014 05:10 #505

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No worries about jacking this thread Dave. It's just one more bit of information added to a learning curve for everyone that may read it.
Who knows, I may need the info for future parts of this project.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 26 Mar 2014 06:53 #506

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builderdude wrote: I've read and researched this also. You are correct, there are some Mats that have a polyester binder in them to hold them together (CSM/biaxial). This binder will dissolve and become part of the layup if your using polyester resin. There are similar mats available that are sewn together and do not have the polyester binder added and so they work with epoxy. These will be the mats that I will use. I'd love to hear from others that have experience with this too.

Its good you are aware of the binder issue and which mat to use. I have a lot of experience with the West System epoxy. When I first started, I would be mixing in a pot, then turn to do some set up and POOF, the epoxy would be smokin' hot and I'd have a hockey puck in the bottom of the pot. West System cures FAST, MINUTES. I am currently working with System 3 Cold Cure, it takes many hours, even at room temp. So, I learned to set up as much as I could well in advance. If you need to keep a batch available in the pot a little longer, for whatever reason, after mixing, pour it into a paint tray. The larger surface area helps keep the temp. down, effectively slowing the catalyzation, giving you more working time. Of course that was before they introduced new, more, types of hardeners! They now offer 4 different hardeners. I was always working with the 205 which they call FAST. I would stick with the 205 unless you are doing a very large part that needs the extra working time for reasons of alignment/set-up. The product info says 205 will give you cure to solid for a thin film in 6 to 8 hours. I think you'll find it a lot faster then that, even for a thin film, which dissipates the heat, thus slowing the cure, the time to cure will still be less the an hour, assuming normal room temps. I used all the additives they sell, microfibers, microspheres, microballoons. Again these have developed into 6 additives. I am using some 404 with the System 3 epoxy to the same effect as Larry with his grindings, paste! Two things I liked about building with wood were if you made a mistake, you could always add more wood and start curving again to attain the shape you want AND the glorious colour.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 26 Mar 2014 18:55 #507

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Thanks for sharing your experience Timberwolf. I have one question though that you didn't cover. Will the ground up fibers that came from Dave's boat, or any boat that was built with polyester, work as a thickener in the epoxy resin?

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1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 26 Mar 2014 19:06 #508

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LRCX 2750 wrote: Thanks for sharing your experience Timberwolf. I have one question though that you didn't cover. Will the ground up fibers that came from Dave's boat, or any boat that was built with polyester, work as a thickener in the epoxy resin?

Good question...It has been discussed that mat used with polyester has a binding agent, and NOT to use this mat with epoxy.
As my project was new construction, and thus I never had grindings,
I would guess the grindings would be okay to use with epoxy as the binding agent is released during the curing process, do you agree?

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Last Edit: by Timberwolf.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 26 Mar 2014 19:29 #509

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I THINK it should work fine, but that's why I asked. At the very least I think a test batch should be mixed up to see how it reacts. Adding fibers to poly extends the curing time. I would assume it will do the same with epoxy. The extended curing time is why I have gone to adding the paste at the same time I lay the mat/biax in place so it's formed at the same time. But before Dave uses the same procedure, I would suggest he do a test batch and see what happens. Bonding a piece of wood to an unused section of existing hull material would be in order too. He could remove it after the test. This way we'll get a real world result even if he only lets it cure up for a day or two.

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1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 26 Mar 2014 19:37 #510

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Larry you took the words right out of my mouth. After reading Timberwolf's post I was going to send him a pm about that very subject. Seems like filler is filler. We just need something added to thicken up the mix so it won't run or sag off of what we just tooled.

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
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'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 26 Mar 2014 20:30 #511

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I'm looking forward to seeing how it works out for you.

I'm making patterns to cut glass for the next two sections right now. I'm hoping to have the Strb. side all done by days end.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 27 Mar 2014 00:22 #512

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Yea the boys are back at it :cheer:

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 27 Mar 2014 06:25 #513

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It's been a long and interesting day today. It started with watching 2 hours of a city counsel meeting to lower the prices to dock a boat at the Sacramento Marina, then talking with Dave for a couple hours about our projects. While all that was going on I traced out the patterns for the last two section on the starb. side and cut out the mat/biax to lay in the hull. Just as I was getting ready to lay in the sections I got a text from my mom that there was a tornado warning in my area. Checking the news and radar internet news site I found the danger was only a few miles away. Soon after the notification I got large amounts of rain and hail at my house. So I postponed the layup for a while until the danger passed. It took several hours to be comfortable that I wasn't in danger of loosing power, but I finally got back into the swing of things and laid the two Strb. sections in.

Here the paper patterns were traced out and laying on the double layers of Mat/Biax after it's been cut out.

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Both layers cut out to the patterns

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It's hard to see because I had trimmed the edges of the glass above both sections, but the outer Strb. and final forward section that's in the bathroom are all laid up.

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I can't tell you just what I'll get done tomorrow because I'm too tired to think about that tonight. But what ever I do I hope it's moving forward. Yes, I guess I am back at it!

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1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 28 Mar 2014 01:41 #514

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I drug my feet most of the day cleaning up the inside of the boat and getting organized again since it was getting pretty cluttered. It's a lot nicer working in a clean environment.
With all that done I finally decided to glass in the one section I've been dreading for a while. It's only 6 3/4" wide and promised to be a challenge. After spreading the paste in all the joints I did the mat layer first. Boy was that fun doing it in one piece. I got it in and almost abandoned putting in the Biax layer right over the top before it cured. But I did continue and was pleased that it went smoother than the mat layer did since the matting on the back side is sewn in place and made it easier to position the section in place. The only really down side to this section was being on my knees bent over for so long. Thankfully I get the night off while it cures up before I make the last port side stringer and get the last section glassed up.

One more section finished up and curing.

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1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 28 Mar 2014 03:21 #515

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I've been following this thread from the start, and just want to say how impressed I am by the work you've accomplished in such a short period of time. The photo's provided make such a difference in documenting the project! Looking forward to watching the journey continue.

James

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 28 Mar 2014 17:25 #516

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Thanks James. your comment was timed just right. I've been feeling like this is taking forever and is moving really slowly. Today I went back to look at the pictures from the start and noticed it's been about 5 months since I started ripping it apart. It put things back in perspective for me. I guess it's moving along faster than it feels like considering all the interruptions along the way. So thank you again!

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1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 28 Mar 2014 18:00 #517

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Larry, compared to most people faced with a project of this magnitude. You are kicking azz! I bought mine 6 months ago, If I worked on mine like you do on yours I would have been fishing and cruising months ago.
Keep truckin dude ;)

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
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'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 28 Mar 2014 18:56 #518

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+1 on the motivation. B)

Heck if this helps calculate the hours you have in the project and figure out what it would cost to pay someone then rejoyce in the savings. :lol:

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 29 Mar 2014 03:20 #519

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Today was a little slow on the progress side of things. I cut off the edges sticking up from the last section laid up yesterday and used a long straight edge so I could outline the hull with the future edge of the flooring. Then I removed the last of the counter top support and replaced it with a temporary support so I could grind the rest of the hull on the port side getting it ready to fill the chine and fabricate the last stringer extension. Using the foam board I made the pattern for it and transferred it to a 2x to make the final stringer. With everything ground off clean I brushed resin in the chine area and the area where the stringer would lay. I then filled most of the chine with paste because it would be hard to lay it out smooth with the stringer in place. After that was set up I installed the stringer with paste and filled the rest of the chine. After it all cures up for a day or more, I'll use the straight edge to mark the upper edge of the stringer and plane it down to the proper height for the floor to set on.

All ground down clean and ready as well as the floors edge marked.

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The chine partially filled so I can install the stringer.

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Stringer set in place and curing. I used a sharp wide putty knife to cut down some of the paste in the chine just after it started to set up. It makes using the grinder to smooth it out a bit easier that way since I've cut off the surface that has the sticky surface on it. That always clogs up a grinding disc.

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I'll be spending time with my son this weekend. So I'm not sure if I'll get much done. But at least I'm laid out to get the final section glassed up so I can start on the flooring/decking next week. :P

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1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 29 Mar 2014 21:42 #520

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Today I got in and shaved the stringer down to the floor level and then ground the filler and the rest of the area down smooth so it's ready to be glassed in. I'm not going to do the glass work for a day or two though. Not only is it raining hard here for the next couple days, but I'm going to spend time with my son. I just had to get something done though.
All leveled out for the flooring.

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Ground down and ready for glass.

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Now this is a site I've been waiting to see for a while now. The structure is all in again with the addition of the last stringer extension. :cheer:

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1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 30 Mar 2014 00:49 #521

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Wow considering your journey only started in November you have come a long way. Pretty soon the new deck will be down.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 01 Apr 2014 16:50 #522

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Mike,
Getting the decking cut to shape and at least setting in place will be an exciting day. I won't be bonding it down for a while though. There will be lots to do with new water valves, hatches, hoses, etc. before I can bond it in. But I am getting closer though.

After a nice weekend I was able to get at least one more section glassed late last night. But as I was wiping down what I thought was gel coat to clean off the glue sprayed on the bottom I found out that it's just a coat of enamel and it started coming off on the rag. So I wiped off as much as I could and ground the surface to clean the remainder of it so it would accept the glass later on.
One more section done.

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We've got major rain storms here for the next couple days. And I have a few sets of carbs to build too. So progress will be down to a crawl for a while. It really sucks being this close and having to walk away from it for a bit. But it's not like it would be hitting the water any time soon. :silly: One last section to glass in, then I can add the edging boards for the decking to bond to.

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1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 01 Apr 2014 21:44 #523

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LRCX 2750 wrote: Mike,
Getting the decking cut to shape and at least setting in place will be an exciting day. I won't be bonding it down for a while though. There will be lots to do with new water valves, hatches, hoses, etc. before I can bond it in. But I am getting closer though.

After a nice weekend I was able to get at least one more section glassed late last night. But as I was wiping down what I thought was gel coat to clean off the glue sprayed on the bottom I found out that it's just a coat of enamel and it started coming off on the rag. So I wiped off as much as I could and ground the surface to clean the remainder of it so it would accept the glass later on.
One more section done.

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We've got major rain storms here for the next couple days. And I have a few sets of carbs to build too. So progress will be down to a crawl for a while. It really sucks being this close and having to walk away from it for a bit. But it's not like it would be hitting the water any time soon. :silly: One last section to glass in, then I can add the edging boards for the decking to bond to.


Well I think the snow has finally stopped here and now the rain has started all last weekend. I haven't touch my boat yet. :(

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 02 Apr 2014 08:31 #524

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Well you guys sure need the rain and us folks North of you sure could use the break!

Just curious, that's right behind the galley cabinets isn't it? When you took the boat apart what did you have behind the cabinets, carpet or tile?

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 02 Apr 2014 16:48 #525

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Fish-a-Palooza wrote: Well you guys sure need the rain and us folks North of you sure could use the break!

Just curious, that's right behind the galley cabinets isn't it? When you took the boat apart what did you have behind the cabinets, carpet or tile?


We definitely got some of what we need. They say we got 1.3" of rain just yesterday. I took a few pictures of it raining, but it was raining so hard everything just looked fuzzy.
I've noticed on the radar that up north you've been getting a lot of rain this year. Send it to use if you figure out how! :P

Yes that's behind the galley cabinets. It was just the painted surface though. No carpet or anything.

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