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TOPIC: My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 12 Jan 2014 00:34 #276

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I agree with green650 here.

Single engine will cost less to operate, less to service, and easier to work on.
Bow thurster will give you the close quarters maneuverability.

BTY: you are making great progress. Lap joints look good. Where the stringer met the hull do you plan on building up more radius so the fiberglass has a less sharp radius or do you fell it is OK as is?

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 12 Jan 2014 19:07 #277

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Sorry guys for the lack of reply. It's been a screwy couple days here. Yesterday I had to rebuild a loading ramp for a friends horse trailer, and the day before my sons mom backed into someones car that I'm going to have to shell out for. But my biggest challenge is that I seem to have hit a mental block on the project. All the thinking about the motor and which way to go has me a bit down, so progress has taken a hit. Today I am going out to do the rest of the grinding so I can finish making all the floor supports and start getting everything glassed in without worrying about the dust after I lay the matt/cloth. Since I've learned that I don't like grinding any more and keep putting it off, getting all that done will get me back in gear and moving forward. I'll update with pictures later tonight.

Green650, You have me thinking about the combo you mentioned. I do like the idea of having more power when I want it and the bow thruster is a great idea. But for now I think I better focus on what I'm doing so I don't hit that mental wall again. It's tough to make these decisions since I've never experienced what this boat was set up with.
I'm going to finish up the cabin area first and get a fresh water tank ordered. Then I can do the engine compartment and bed the fuel tank. Then I'll have to decide which power I'm going to go with.

Mike, the radius I have at each joint right now is about 1". I won't have a problem with that, but I am going to sand them all smooth and lay more in there that's mixed with the Cabo-O-Sil powder so the glass lays easier. The ground up fibers I used make the surface of the radius a little rough and would make more work laying in the matting and having to chase air bubbles out. I'm trying to decide right now which matt/cloth to lay into the joints and over the hull. I know a layer of matt tape and roving cloth over it is the normal process. But I'm thinking of using the cloth that has the matt and cloth sewn together. (I can't remember what it's called right now) But it has great strength and I've used it in the past, so I know it's characteristics and how to work with it. What would you guys suggest?

OK, I'm off to grind for the day.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 12 Jan 2014 20:01 #278

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Look you have read my project post(I need to post more) but remember what I said about a project like this is as much emotional and physical and technical.

Take it from some one who knows. Unless you have a specific desire or goal in mind use what you have make it nice get it done and enjoy it.

Surely from the factory new it was a decent boat there is nothing wrong with putting it back the way it was but with better materials and craftsmanship.

Don't get all caught up in what we would do or what we think k is cool. We can spend your money and time 24/7.

You already have the stringer set up now. Unless you have a specific plant in mind and that is your desire stick with what you have.

Many improvements over the old can be made because of technology. Using the original equipment .

Trust me in what j say if you stray from what was there the project will get bigger and bigger. It will go on for longer than you think and will cost way more than you think. You will probably my lose a year or two of use in it. I know from experience.

Ask astral blue how his repower experience was compared to what he had in his mind in the beginning and how it went along the way.

I'm sure it turned out good but it never goes how you picture it in your mind. There is time overages money cost over ages. Emotional stress and relationship stress. I remember him whining :) about this wasn't eight and he had to make this and that change and it wasn't done when he wanted it.

And just think of all that 5200 he had to use. Lol

What you think it will cost to repower well double that. That is if you have the # correct.

Anyway do what you think you want but the more you change it the more you change it.

Think if you change one thing you have to change 2 or 3 other things to make it work.

Just my experience not trying to discourage you im just being realistic.

Do you want to use the boat or work on the boat you have to ask that question.

How is your emotional state when it comes to projects?

Just something to think about.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 12 Jan 2014 21:37 #279

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yachtman wrote: Look you have read my project post(I need to post more) but remember what I said about a project like this is as much emotional and physical and technical.

Take it from some one who knows. Unless you have a specific desire or goal in mind use what you have make it nice get it done and enjoy it.

Surely from the factory new it was a decent boat there is nothing wrong with putting it back the way it was but with better materials and craftsmanship.

Don't get all caught up in what we would do or what we think k is cool. We can spend your money and time 24/7.

You already have the stringer set up now. Unless you have a specific plant in mind and that is your desire stick with what you have.

Many improvements over the old can be made because of technology. Using the original equipment .

Trust me in what j say if you stray from what was there the project will get bigger and bigger. It will go on for longer than you think and will cost way more than you think. You will probably my lose a year or two of use in it. I know from experience.

Ask astral blue how his repower experience was compared to what he had in his mind in the beginning and how it went along the way.

I'm sure it turned out good but it never goes how you picture it in your mind. There is time overages money cost over ages. Emotional stress and relationship stress. I remember him whining :) about this wasn't eight and he had to make this and that change and it wasn't done when he wanted it.

And just think of all that 5200 he had to use. Lol

What you think it will cost to repower well double that. That is if you have the # correct.

Anyway do what you think you want but the more you change it the more you change it.

Think if you change one thing you have to change 2 or 3 other things to make it work.

Just my experience not trying to discourage you im just being realistic.

Do you want to use the boat or work on the boat you have to ask that question.

How is your emotional state when it comes to projects?

Just something to think about.


What he said :)

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 13 Jan 2014 05:09 #280

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yachtman wrote: Look you have read my project post(I need to post more) but remember what I said about a project like this is as much emotional and physical and technical.

I do remember what you told me. I always knew there was physical demands, but the emotional ones just seem to creep in unexpectedly. I'm better now though.

Take it from some one who knows. Unless you have a specific desire or goal in mind use what you have make it nice get it done and enjoy it.

Wise words with no added confusions! Thanks.
Surely from the factory new it was a decent boat there is nothing wrong with putting it back the way it was but with better materials and craftsmanship.

Don't get all caught up in what we would do or what we think k is cool. We can spend your money and time 24/7.

LOL, from the beginning of this post there's been mention of repowering and changes that has had me thinking in all kinds of directions. BUT, it IS what I asked for though isn't it!
You already have the stringer set up now. Unless you have a specific plant in mind and that is your desire stick with what you have.

Many improvements over the old can be made because of technology. Using the original equipment .

That's what I'm hoping for. I can only hope that with all the improvements I can get this over the 3500 rpm that seemed to be the max for the 5 minutes I used it that one day.
Trust me in what j say if you stray from what was there the project will get bigger and bigger. It will go on for longer than you think and will cost way more than you think. You will probably my lose a year or two of use in it. I know from experience.

That's one of the things that was getting me bummed out. If I changed to one motor, all the gauges and wiring had to be changed, then all the shift and throttle controls, then the transom would have to be glassed in and recut.... etc...
Ask astral blue how his repower experience was compared to what he had in his mind in the beginning and how it went along the way.

I'm sure it turned out good but it never goes how you picture it in your mind. There is time overages money cost over ages. Emotional stress and relationship stress. I remember him whining :) about this wasn't eight and he had to make this and that change and it wasn't done when he wanted it.

And just think of all that 5200 he had to use. Lol

What you think it will cost to repower well double that. That is if you have the # correct.

Yep, I can build a motor for it, but then there's exhaust, a good charging system, carb, linkage... again, more money...
Anyway do what you think you want but the more you change it the more you change it.

Think if you change one thing you have to change 2 or 3 other things to make it work.

Just my experience not trying to discourage you im just being realistic.

Do you want to use the boat or work on the boat you have to ask that question.

I'm sure I'll be working on it for years. There's always things we want to do with projects like this. BUT, I'd LIKE to use it next summer sometime. A lofty goal I know, and probably not realistic considering how in depth I've had to go already.
How is your emotional state when it comes to projects?

I'm generally a very focused person when it comes to seeing a project through to the end. But the sheer size of this one takes it's toll at times and that's something I have to get used to. Emotionally, I never let anything get in my way if I can help it.

Just something to think about.


Thanks for the realistic pep talk. As usual it all helps to ground me and get back to focus. You'll see in the next post.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 13 Jan 2014 05:30 #281

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yachtman wrote: Ask astral blue how his repower experience was compared to what he had in his mind in the beginning and how it went along the way.


Dave and everyone who is reading this: Let me say with emphasis that I'm very happy with the end product. But..... If I had a chance to do it again, I wouldn't have taken this route. My repower was very complex and had numerous issues that we had to worth through. Coupled with that, I had a mechanic that took on more projects than he could handle, which left my repower on the back burner causing me to loose most of a boating season. My main reason for saying I wouldn't do this again is due to how much down time I had as a result of the challenges I had to work through...and how much of my time it consumed. I would have much rather spent that time on the water.

Larry... If you repower, you will not experience many of the complications I did. You are not switching from a gas engine to a Diesel engine, nor are you attempting to adapt an engine to a drive system in ways that have not been done before. You are simply replacing one powerplant with another -- same fuel, compatible bell housings and couplers, etc. But nonetheless, I agree with Dave. Get the work done so you can enjoy your boat. Every day you lose out on the water is a day you will never be able to recapture.

Just my two cents...

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 13 Jan 2014 05:35 #282

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It's amazing what a good pep talk and a day behind a grinder can do for the spirits. I set out today to get all the dirty work done (grinding) and get things ready to make the outer flooring supports. The more I did the more I got into it. In the end I finished grinding all the glass I had put off and was able to fit the chine stiffeners as well as make the supports for the upper floor sections that go up next to the sides of the hull. I have a few more flooring supports to make still, but with all the dirty work out of the way it will be pretty easy.

Here it is with the center stringers installed. The chine stiffeners and the side supports still have to be bedded in thickened resin, but their ready.

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This is the side supports I'm referring to. They will be bonded to the side and the bottom of the hull.

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It was pretty nice today being able to stand and sit on a flat surface now that the stringers are in. This was a section of treated plywood left over from the horse trailer job yesterday.

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Tomorrow I have to finish smoothing out some corners and start laying some glass in areas before I add the new wood in. I'm still maintaining that each section of wood doesn't attach to the adjoining one in case of water penetration. Oh, and after grinding down all the rounded filler, yes, I'll be adding more to make a better radius. They weren't as rounded as I had thought they were.

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1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 13 Jan 2014 06:37 #283

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Damn, that looks good, Larry you are kicking ass!! The progress you've made is inspiring!
I love you man :lol:

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Dave
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 13 Jan 2014 07:10 #284

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Thanks Dave. It IS a lot easier to make good progress when my mind is focused! :)

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 13 Jan 2014 11:12 #285

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builderdude wrote: Damn, that looks good, Larry you are kicking ass!! The progress you've made is inspiring!
I love you man :lol:


***********
I love you too, Larry, but let's be clear that this is a heterosexual comment! :D

Keep up the god work!


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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 13 Jan 2014 11:23 #286

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So its agreed we all love Larry :ohmy:

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1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge twin 454's

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hull#23

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop hull#24
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 13 Jan 2014 12:06 #287

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Repower experience:

It is very easy to lose a whole season from a Repower. I did a straight swap from a 5.0L petrol to a 5.7L petrol in Nov 2011. The boat still doesn't have a running engine. I think the message is "don't take a repower lightly". You are at the mercy of the repower Gods.

Terry

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 13 Jan 2014 12:41 #288

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Oh what the heck, I love you to Larry B)

Great progress! Like you I will spend all the time I can working on the boat during the off season but once it warms up I just want to use it.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 13 Jan 2014 12:42 #289

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yachtman wrote: So its agreed we all love Larry :ohmy:


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No more or less than how we love you, Dave!
:D


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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 13 Jan 2014 13:27 #290

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LOL

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Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

'86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 13 Jan 2014 16:58 #291

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LOL... I love you guys too.

OK, now that the love has been spread around, :P Please remember I'm waiting for opinions and recommendations on the optimum matt/cloth to use.
I'm setting up to do the resin/glass work today. Read what I posted yesterday (below) and give me your opinion before I get started. I still have some presoaking and paste bonding to do this morning. So I have a little time before I have to go buy the cloth.

Mike, the radius I have at each joint right now is about 1". I won't have a problem with that, but I am going to sand them all smooth and lay more in there that's mixed with the Cabo-O-Sil powder so the glass lays easier. The ground up fibers I used make the surface of the radius a little rough and would make more work laying in the matting and having to chase air bubbles out. I'm trying to decide right now which matt/cloth to lay into the joints and over the hull. I know a layer of matt tape and roving cloth over it is the normal process. But I'm thinking of using the cloth that has the matt and cloth sewn together. (I can't remember what it's called right now) But it has great strength and I've used it in the past, so I know it's characteristics and how to work with it. What would you guys suggest?
[/color

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 13 Jan 2014 17:12 #292

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Sorry can't be much help here as I have not done any glass work. I have done some reading on it but this is a learning experience for me :unsure:

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 13 Jan 2014 18:24 #293

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LRCX 2750 wrote:
I'm sure I'll be working on it for years. There's always things we want to do with projects like this. BUT, I'd LIKE to use it next summer sometime. A lofty goal I know, and probably not realistic considering how in depth I've had to go already..

TerryW wrote: Repower experience:

It is very easy to lose a whole season from a Repower. I did a straight swap from a 5.0L petrol to a 5.7L petrol in Nov 2011. The boat still doesn't have a running engine. I think the message is "don't take a repower lightly". You are at the mercy of the repower Gods.

Terry


Getting your boat back on the water in time for summer IS a realistic and attainable goal. My restoration / re-power took just about nine months. I only worked on the boat on weekends and evenings (and certainly not every weekeend and evening). You'll be on the water this season!

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 13 Jan 2014 18:43 #294

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Biaxial cloth 18oz. I alternated mine with 12oz mat then biax then mat then biax until you get the desired thickness.

I know biaxial has a mat sewn to it but its thin I preferred thicker mat. So I laid mat too. You will like how biaxial cloth bends the coners and its much stronger than conventional cloth costs a little more though.

I purchased mine on line a much better price I bought a entire roll and used it all I could use some more. It will take a few days to get however because its heavy and 4-6 ft long.

I started with 12oz mat then 24 oz woven roving on the inside corners of the stringers up to the top of the stringer then I went 12oz mat over the entire stringer then layer of biax then mat then biax then a finish layer of mat over the entire thing.

To be clear the 24oz goes on the hull around the inside corner and up the side not over the top it is nearly impossible to get it to bend a outside corner that sharp.
You could substitute the roving of 24oz for the thinner biax but you will need to lay more than one layer of it. It might be easier to out down that way but you will need more layers.

If you don't know each layer of material needs to over lap or go out farther beyond the previous layer (or inside depending if you start wide or narrow) an inch to two inches. No hard edges on a stringer lay up in will create hard spots in the hull and it will crack there and possibly fail.

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1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop hull#24
Twin chevy 350's
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 14 Jan 2014 02:50 #295

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Thank you David. I'm going to do my best to follow your outline, but I'm going to have to source the heavier mat. Taps doesn't carry it that heavy.

Instead of using the cab-o sil to do the radius joints I'm getting a 10 lb. bag of milled fibers that should make the joints smoother. Luckily the guy at taps is delivering it in about 30 minutes. We'll see how it works out when I get it. It's ground fibers instead of a thickening agent. So it should add a little more strength and lay down smooth when it's mixed.

Today's been a lot of fun, not! I mixed up my paste with my grindings and laid the outer support in place. What I hadn't planned on is that with the resin in there things would slip out of place. I had to add a downward support to hold it down to the hull. And since I mixed up a LOT of paste, I was able to install the chin stiffener at the same time with the extra paste that squeezed out. The round things on top of it are lead weights holding it down as tight to the hull as possible.

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Since it already dark out and I have the underside heater running to cure the starboard side installation, I'm going to press on tonight and install the port side wood so I don't waste another day tomorrow waiting for them to cure. Yes, It'll be another long night. But it's forward progress!

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 14 Jan 2014 03:39 #296

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You don really need the heavier stuff. The total thickness is what is needed. So if you want or need 24oz lay down two of 12oz. Tap probably my doesn't sell it because its hard to work with. Like I said it won't lay down on a outside corner very well. Whether it be cloth or mat its the same just lay down more layers to get the desired thickness. If you can only get 6oz lay two if you think you need it for your desired thickness.

Now mine was laid down with a thin I mean thin layer of chopper gun glass then a 24oz and then a thin layer of chopper mat. It wasn't good from the factory most of it didn't even have chopper mat on it. The roving had all kinds of holes in it.

The goal.should to make.it at least as thick as the factory stuff. I chose to make mine thicker as I've seen the better made boats with some pretty much thick stringer glass.

The key is to have no hard terminating edges. That would be not thick terminating edges but rather all feathered to one maybe two layers.

Maybe you will be faster than me but when I did mine a 16' long stringer with the gas tank bed took me pretty much 8 hours start to finish and a single 28' stringer took me 8 hrs to finish. That would be start to finish all layers laid down and feathered and bubble rolled. Each stringer. That was working epoxy which is a little more difficult than polyester.

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1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge twin 454's

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hull#23

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop hull#24
Twin chevy 350's
Last Edit: by yachtman.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 15 Jan 2014 00:55 #297

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I got the port side wood installed last night so I could move on with the glass work today. After dragging my feet I finally dove in. After cleaning up a few corners I presoaked the bare stringers and the hull. After getting half of the mating cut to shape I did something a little different. Instead of radiusing the corners with the paste first and letting it set up, I added the paste into the sharp seams JUST before I laid down the layer of mat. This is a trick I learned while fabricating fiberglass motorcycle parts. The soft paste is allowed to conform to the corners and when the glass is rolled out, I can not only smooth it all at the same time, but the paste keeps bubbles from forming due to the mat trying to lift off the surface. As you'll see it works out really well. It also saves a lot of time doing it this way. You just have to be careful not to push to hard in the corners.

One layer of mat all laid in the entire box section.

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Sharp seams flowed out with no air bubbles.

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OK David, my next question is for you. The next layer will be biax cloth. Am I ok to take it from the top of the stringer, down to the corner and over to the edge of the chine instead of going all the way across the hull?

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1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 15 Jan 2014 02:28 #298

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LRCX 2750 wrote: I got the port side wood installed last night so I could move on with the glass work today. After dragging my feet I finally dove in. After cleaning up a few corners I presoaked the bare stringers and the hull. After getting half of the mating cut to shape I did something a little different. Instead of radiusing the corners with the paste first and letting it set up, I added the paste into the sharp seams JUST before I laid down the layer of mat. This is a trick I learned while fabricating fiberglass motorcycle parts. The soft paste is allowed to conform to the corners and when the glass is rolled out, I can not only smooth it all at the same time, but the paste keeps bubbles from forming due to the mat trying to lift off the surface. As you'll see it works out really well. It also saves a lot of time doing it this way. You just have to be careful not to push to hard in the corners.

One layer of mat all laid in the entire box section.

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Sharp seams flowed out with no air bubbles.

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OK David, my next question is for you. The next layer will be biax cloth. Am I ok to take it from the top of the stringer, down to the corner and over to the edge of the chine instead of going all the way across the hull?

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No you don't have to go across the entire hull.

Do one stringer at a time in workable sections. I assuming you are using laminating resin and not finish resin. You don't have to lay up all the thickness at one time. I was laying with epoxy with that I had to start and finish all the layers to one complete stringer in one complete.operation.

Do one stringer. Lay the first layer down so it lays on the hull a few inches goes up one side over the top down the other side and on to the hull a few inches.

The next layer will be wide enough to cover the previous layer plus a inch or two beyond the edge of the previous layer.

Keep in mind that if you do six layers you should be at least about 8" beyond the stringer on both sides so your last layer will be (if its a 2x6) like 24-25 inches wide and the length of the stringer.

I worked because they we so long half the stringer in sheets at a time. In other words I cut the glass the size for that stringer lay up then I cut it a little longer for over lap I cut the sheet in half so in only lay up half at a time the over lap it and lay the other half.. don't make all your over laps in the same place.

Keep the size of the work area to a manageable size for you.

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1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge twin 454's

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hull#23

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop hull#24
Twin chevy 350's

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 15 Jan 2014 02:36 #299

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OK here is some home work for you.........

This loads as a PDF file. Its for epoxy but the technical operation is pretty much the same. Only if you are using polyester laminating resin you don't sand you just wipe with acetone if its cured .

The lay up is the same as polyester.

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&...vODlko6JecUIzLqFdyMA

This is good reading you probably should have read it before you started you might have had some insight but none the less check it out.

Now in the manual they lay the widest first and go smaller i chose to lay the smallest first and go wider as far as glass layers I'm not sure it matters.

There is also a good glass thickness schedule chart for calculating thickness of different types of glass. You won't need to guess.

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1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge twin 454's

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hull#23

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop hull#24
Twin chevy 350's
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 15 Jan 2014 02:53 #300

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Thanks, I'm getting ready to lay a layer of biax right now over the mat. If I'm correct, alternating the matting and biax two times should be enough for each stringer. Correct?

That's a lot of reading, but I think I have that book in hard copy from back in the day when I was rebuilding a plywood boat.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.
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