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TOPIC: My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 07 Jan 2014 19:11 #251

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yachtman wrote: Now forward in the cabin part of the floor there are maybe what might be called lumber holes. (No one has been able to tell me what these holes are called or what they are for. )


From Wikipedia:

"A limber hole is a drain hole through a frame in a boat designed to prevent water from accumulating against one side of the frame. Limber holes are common in the bilges of wooden boats. The term may be extended to cover drain holes in floors. Limber holes are created in between bulk heads so that one compartment does not fill with water."

Personally I always saw the value of having limber holes becasue I would rather have multiple pumps dealing with water than just one that might fail.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 07 Jan 2014 20:07 #252

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dewman wrote:

yachtman wrote: Now forward in the cabin part of the floor there are maybe what might be called lumber holes. (No one has been able to tell me what these holes are called or what they are for. )


From Wikipedia:

"A limber hole is a drain hole through a frame in a boat designed to prevent water from accumulating against one side of the frame. Limber holes are common in the bilges of wooden boats. The term may be extended to cover drain holes in floors. Limber holes are created in between bulk heads so that one compartment does not fill with water."

Personally I always saw the value of having limber holes becasue I would rather have multiple pumps dealing with water than just one that might fail.


Ok limber holes :) I was tired when I wrote that and didnt think it was right.

But what I show in my photo isn't a limber hole. It is half way up a 2x8 and in the off bilgw area there was one and the 6 inches away there was a limber hole cut at the bottom of the stringer at the hull.

The for foam thought is almost plausible except in a 32' Bayliner never used foam and there are some in the engine bay that never would /could have foam.

My though is that they are for he stringer to dry if it gets wet if ao BL out thought them selves.

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1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge twin 454's

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hull#23

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop hull#24
Twin chevy 350's
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 07 Jan 2014 20:22 #253

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Here's a shot of the port side "box". I used a 3" hole saw to get a better peak at things.

Below are of the starboard side "box" got a light shining in from the top,



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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 07 Jan 2014 20:42 #254

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Here is a picture of a limber hole in the same boat as the other picture of the hole in the stringer in contrast of the difference.

This limber hole is just a bit down from another hole drilled in the middle of the stringer. The limber while is on the left of the pic.



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1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge twin 454's

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hull#23

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop hull#24
Twin chevy 350's
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Jan 2014 05:29 #255

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Staying with the last topic here, I promised a picture of the bad shower drain area. On the left is a sheet of plywood that went all the way up to the flooring. On the right is a 2x4 ONLY that doesn't go up to seal to the flooring and retain water accumulated in there. With the pump being manually operated, I can only imagine how many times the water draining into this area filled up and over the 2x4 soaking the next compartment into all that dry fibers in this boat. Also notice the drain hole from the bathroom as well as the hole for the water supply hose. No sealer at all keeping the wood dry. And yes it's all rotted. Come on, it was intended to flow water through it!

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1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Jan 2014 06:02 #256

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OK, so today's progress. Not as much as I had hoped for, but that seems to be the norm sometimes.
I extended the height of the two outer main stringers today so they match the level of the floor panels that will go on top of them. After getting them cut to shape I drilled screw holes into each of them to attach them the the stringer. I pre soaked everything and then laid two layers of chopped matting between them soaked with resin and screwed them snugly into place. The ends were cut at an angle so a bead of paste sealed the wood from the connecting bulkheads like the rest of it.
The two layers of matting filled any uneven surfaces and added a little more strength to the stringer.

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I cut the slots out in the forward bulkhead for the center stringers to slid down in after I finished the outer extensions. Tomorrow I'll cut them down to the proper height and figure out how I want to attach the forward end to the future forward stringer replacement and get them glassed into the hull. I'm leaning towards a large shiplap joint since there isn't enough length to do a scarf joint.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Jan 2014 12:19 #257

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Larry, your work and progress is very impressive. I think that most of us would give you an A+ on your work!

At some point, you may want to do some testing to find out where and why these areas were getting wet in the first place.
If you wanted to, deck plates could be installed in your floor system for occasional and future inspections.
The deck plates can also be left open during non-use to allow air movement.

Have you given anymore thought to power?
As in going back with the twin 4's...... or as in doing the V-8 power?????


.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Jan 2014 13:04 #258

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yachtman wrote:

Charlie Ward wrote: Larry, You're doing a grand job. I've been following this thread with interest.
Can I ask,, how do you intend to remove water which may accrue forward of the new bulkhead? Will you cut a drain into the new panel? Or maybe a forward bilge pump?

Charlie


I've given your comment over the years a lot of thought.

My first question is how did water get in there forward ? The next question would be where is it coming from so I can fix it. ( I know how it gets there if there is bilge access but how would you know if you had a leak if it didn't stay dry)

I personally wouldn't want water forward of the engine room bulkhead. Mine are sealed as how I did it and I can say that if there is significant water in the forward section of my boat I'm in a heck of a lot of trouble. Not because of the water but because its got damage and I'm probably my going down any way.

I do have 3 bilge pumps forward planned.

The other thing and I'm pretty anal about.is the icky stinky engine room bilge water that goes forward and smells up the cabin.

There should be no reason one couldn't use the large bilge hold area in the floor of the cabin area with exception that the factory made it possible for the dirty bilge water to go forward and make it dirty wet and smelly.

My thinking is if I get water in there I need to find the leak and fix it. If you have bilge water running around how are you going to know many times that you even have a water leak?

If its a leak other than a hole in the bottom it would never be significant to sink the boat unless ignored. So identify fix and dry.

There is never any aceptable reason for having water in the forward part of an enclosed cruiser. If you do there is a problem.

The other part of the equation is if your forward bilge is always wet eventually its going to rot. There are many areas up front that water can enter and can't escape so don't let it get there in the first place and don't let it create a problem

If any one can explain to me otherwise I would be willing to listen. A small and large auto bilge pump should be more than sufficient forward to be safe.

Another thing would be if I was to get hull damage to the point of a leak I would want and hope that the boat is compartmentalised as to keep the water entering to a minimal. I would prefer to keep from flooding the engine compartment.

In my boat I built a crash compartment in the front of the boat then its completely sealed off by the front v-berth bed and bulk head. Again no drain hole. A chauffer dam of a sort, for it to leave that area if I hit something the water will have to be 3 feet deep and a significant accumulation would have occured but still would not have entered the main cabin bilge area.


Great post David.
When I carried out the refurb on my Nisqually a few years ago I discovered some water in the forward compartment. This area of the boat is sealed from the aft compartment and the water quickly became stagnent. I too was of the opinion that it was better to fix the problem rather than treating the symptoms. I did however install a switched pump in the forward keel at the lowest point possible, and have to admit that im so glad I did. Because as fate would have it, a small water leak developed in the head inlet seacock and water would seep into the forward compartment. I was only alerted of the problem by the pump kicking in one night. All sorted now and the pump has been silent since.
Wish I had fitted inspection deck plates. Good idea.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Jan 2014 13:28 #259

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OK today when I woke up I had an epiphani (as I often do :) )

Thinking about those holes and where others have said they are placed on their boats. Some covered and some not.

Also sometimes thinking about how they get the hull of a large boat out of the mould.

So I'll run this thought by you guys. As there would be no need to put them back in.


I'm thinking those holes were used as lifting points to pull the hull from the mould.

I bet if you all look hard you will find some up front and some in the back of the stringer.

What do you think?

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1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge twin 454's

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hull#23

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop hull#24
Twin chevy 350's

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Jan 2014 14:09 #260

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Dave, you are most likely correct, and that is likely what they were used for!

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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Jan 2014 16:40 #261

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2850Bounty wrote: Dave, you are most likely correct, and that is likely what they were used for!

And to pump in some concrete :woohoo:

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Jan 2014 20:07 #262

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2850Bounty wrote: Larry, your work and progress is very impressive. I think that most of us would give you an A+ on your work!

At some point, you may want to do some testing to find out where and why these areas were getting wet in the first place.
If you wanted to, deck plates could be installed in your floor system for occasional and future inspections.
The deck plates can also be left open during non-use to allow air movement.

Have you given anymore thought to power?
As in going back with the twin 4's...... or as in doing the V-8 power?????
.


Thanks Rick for the A+. I'm not always sure if what I'm doing is right. I just try to use commonsense to lead me.

I've already found the major leaks. Inside the cabin it was due to a cracked fitting on the fresh water tank that appeared to have been leaking most of the boats life. I also know the windshield needs to be sealed due to shrunken seals. I've also noticed through hull fittings that had signs of leaking. Eventually I'd like to find out if there is new side window seals that they slide in. But I'm not at that point yet.

I'm still torn on the power for the boat. I'd really like to here from someone that has one with the same twins I have to get their opinion on it's performance. I know it would be less money to put one motor and out drive in it, but I'm just not sure yet. I do like the twins for maneuvering around the docks. I guess my biggest problem is that I only got to use the boat for about 10 minutes before I had to pull it out. It gives me nothing to compare to one way or another.
It would have also been nice to know if I wanted to change some of the interior design while I'm rebuilding it. But again, no time in it gives me nothing.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 09 Jan 2014 00:37 #263

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Today's been a bit of fun even though it ate up a lot of time. I set out to cut the shiplap joints in the end of the stringers. With just a regular router I wasn't able to span across a 6" spread. So I had to make a new base for it that was wide enough. Luckily I had a piece of 1/4" plexiglass instead of buying some. With the base that wide I had to add stiffeners so it would stay flat and cut a smooth even pattern. As you can see it worked out pretty well.

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As mentioned yesterday I had the bulkhead cutouts already done and only had to set the stringers in place. It's too late to bond the stringers in today, but I'll at least get them pre soaked and ready for morning. So far all the lines match up with the existing flooring when I set a section of plywood on there.

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When I'm ready for the forward stringer replacement, the ends of those will be shiplap cut as well and get bonded in place tying it them together as one.

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That's all for today. I have some other stuff to catch up on, so I'll take advantage of the time I have.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 09 Jan 2014 09:28 #264

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I replaced the inlet valve for the toilet for the same reason you are thinking; because it’s seems stupid to have a plastic valve exposed to possible shearing. After I removed it and inspected it more closely I realized it’s not plastic but rather a polypropylene type material. Tough stuff and the valve still operated smoothly without leaking.

As far as power goes, I think it really depends on how you boat. I think it would be nice to have the twins for what you already stated. Also it’s nice to have a spare engine to limp back in on if one goes south, plus You can troll all day long on 4 cyl for fishing without loading up the motor.

My Victoria had a single SBC 260hp with a duo prop outdrive and I was impressed (once I got it running right) with how well the boat performed. However I did hang a kicker motor off the back for trolling while fishing and for an emergency motor to at least keep me off the rocks until I could set an anchor.

If I were to start over with a single I would probably go with a 383 SBC just for the extra HP. When I first considered repowering my Vicky I looked at a BBC but found the engine was too long and too tall for the compartment.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 09 Jan 2014 21:14 #265

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Thanks for the input on the valve material Wayne. Did you change it out or leave it in? I'll take a look at mine when it's time to pull it out and see how it looks.

For all the reasons you mentioned, I'm leaning towards keeping the twin 140s. I do plan on doing a lot of fishing since I have two boys that are just itching to get out on this to fish. Trolling or slow cruising would definitely be better on fuel if I run on just one motor. I haven't been out to use this yet, but I really don't think I'm going to be in a hurry when I'm out enjoying it.

How was the fuel consumption with the SBC? Did it get it up on plane with it, or is this hull not designed to plane?

Is there anyone out there that has a boat near the size of mine with the twin 4 cylinder motors that can jump in here with their opinions of it?

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 10 Jan 2014 01:20 #266

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Not sure it has been done however a pair of 4.3's should be the perfect set up for this boat.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 10 Jan 2014 07:26 #267

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Is there anyone out there that has a boat near the size of mine with the twin 4 cylinder motors that can jump in here with their opinions of it?

************
I've worked on twin Volvo Penta 4 cylinder models, and they are typically under powered...... according to the owners!

As for doing twin V engines, the center to center dimension is incorrect for these. The spacing is set up for the more narrow 4 bangers.
Plus, I don't recall this Victoria model being offered with twin V engines.

IMO, this boat needs a well built SBC and a Duo Prop drive.
I've known two Vicky owners with V-8s and DP drives, and their boats have performed well.
I've also known a few Vicky owners with V-8's and single prop drives, and they are just not getting the performance that the boat deserves!

Volvo Penta's Duo Prop provides additional thrust to the water that would be comparable to adding an additional 70 to 80 horse power with a single prop drive.

.

  

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 10 Jan 2014 13:30 #268

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LRCX 2750 wrote: Thanks for the input on the valve material Wayne. Did you change it out or leave it in?

I changed it out but realized after examining it I could have left it in and just re-bedded.

How was the fuel consumption with the SBC? Did it get it up on plane with it, or is this hull not designed to plane?

This hull is designed to plane and it does it very well with a healthy SBC and a Duo-prop outdrive. But the mileage IMO isn't good. About 1.5 MPG while cruising at 3600-3800 RPM around and I want to say 28 MPH GPS. I run a flow scan so my MPG numbers are pretty accurate.

Is there anyone out there that has a boat near the size of mine with the twin 4 cylinder motors that can jump in here with their opinions of it?

I have no experience with the twin 4 bangers, but I know you don't have enough beam to install V-6's

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Wayne
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1988 1710 Fish-N-Ski (Bass Trophy), Force 125HP

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 10 Jan 2014 15:15 #269

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Larry, the late Don S (iBoats and former BOC member) owned and operated an older Victoria SDN F/B boat. I know that Don ran a SBC with the AQ series Volvo Penta Duo Prop drive.
Knowing what I knew about Don, he most likely found that this boat would only perform well with the V-8 and Duo Prop drive.

I've done many s/p to DP conversions, and to date no one has been disappointed with the additional performance!

I did the same to my own twin V-8 engine 2850 years ago. The DPs changed this boat's performance beyond belief.


.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 10 Jan 2014 15:54 #270

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While we are spending your money, a Volvo diesel and a VP duo prop would be a sweet combo :whistle:

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 10 Jan 2014 16:40 #271

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I am kind of a purest in some respects I would probably keep the 4's and improve them but that isn't for every one.

Now here is something I would so do !!!!

A 7.3 ford power stroke marine.
slo.craigslist.org/boa/4268272737.html

Its even with in your state. Might be worth a look.

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1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge twin 454's

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hull#23

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop hull#24
Twin chevy 350's
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 10 Jan 2014 19:28 #272

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With all this input I'm more torn than ever now. I think I'm just going to press on with rebuilding the hull for now and see how much I can save up for the power options while I'm at it.

But, improving the 4's isn't out of my ability. What comes to mind is porting the heads and installing better cams if they exist. Is there better carb options for these motors than the twin solex carbs?
What would you do to improve these AQ140A motors?

BTW, the center stringers are in. I got them installed and cured yesterday before a major power outage hit our area with more than 80000 out of power. I am lucky enough though to have a backup generator system wired into the house.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 10 Jan 2014 23:01 #273

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Me thinks Larry has the ability to rebuild his original 4's and improve them in the process. You said you like the idea of twins for maneuvering etc. I'm guessing far less expense to rebuild what you have, than repower with new stuff IDK, just my thoughts. Keep up the great job Larry! :)

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 11 Jan 2014 04:22 #274

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Larry, if I may chime in here... The Victoria hull is stable at both low and high speeds. As long as you are trekking at above 6 knots, you will be able to take advantage of its stability. It might be best to see what you are looking for in a powerplant. If you want speed, you might consider a 383 stroker. It will easily fit in your engine compartment and give you great performance. The twins will not give you much speed; but if you are using them for casual cruising, you can't go wrong.

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1977 Bayliner Victoria "Astral Blue"
Repowered with Perkins 4.108 Diesel
Volvo-Penta 280 Drive
MMSI #: 338127697


My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 11 Jan 2014 23:15 #275

  • green650
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I don't know if it's been mentioned, but if maneuverability at the dock is the main reason you want twins, why not put in a bow thruster and a V8?
You got the skills to do the install and a bow thruster should cost less than a second engine/out drive.

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