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TOPIC: My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 20 Nov 2013 20:11 #26

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Chief Alen wrote: I read each and every post to the tech. forum.

Because i am not posting does not mean i am not reading each one.

Nothing to add just yet.


It's nice to know your are TROLLING

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" WET EVER "
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It's only a rock, get over it.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 20 Nov 2013 20:17 #27

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I'm like dog chit i'm everywhere.

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Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

'86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 20 Nov 2013 21:02 #28

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Larry, if you need to section the core pieces, just break up where the splits are!  IOW, do not split both core pieces in the same area.
One could be in two pieces, the other in three pieces, for example.
As said, the strength will be in the "box-beam" effect that you create with the resin wet matting/roving, etc.

As for a GM SBC, Marine builds are not the same as automotive builds.
Our static C/R's are generally mild to mid range, and when possible, we want a good quench area!
With a SBC Marine engine, detonation potential is a great concern.


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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
Twin 270 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 21 Nov 2013 02:02 #29

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Brad 3055 wrote: Ed- Didn't you install the VP steam engine and duo paddle wheel? ;)


No Brad, the steam engine with the paddle wheel is faster than my boat! :)

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Ed & Lindsey
Sacramento, CA
1977 Bayliner Victoria "Astral Blue"
Repowered with Perkins 4.108 Diesel
Volvo-Penta 280 Drive
MMSI #: 338127697


My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 21 Nov 2013 03:50 #30

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Well, I got the floor cut out today and pulled the fresh water tank out just to find a cracked hose fitting that's been probably leaking since it's original build. The stringer on the port side was absolute mush right next to it. The tank is aluminum and has stuff rattling around inside. Is there a company I can possible find a plastic tank to replace it with? I can cut it apart, clean it and weld it up, but I wouldn't think an aluminum tank would be good forever.

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This is the bottom of the tank. It almost looks like some of the parts on the transoms that have been in water for years.

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The fun was just starting. It took a while to get all the reinforcement ply out of the center, all wet too, but sticking with it I got it out and cleaned up a bit.

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I still have a hard time believing BL'ers tolerances were this loose. Could you imagine a car being built like this! I was able to fit my finger under this gap.

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A bit of grinding and it actually looks like I may have something to look forward to. I had to do it even though I'm not quit ready to start fitting new stringer. I left the outer stringer in place while I did some clean up grinding to hold the shape until I support the bottom side. I needed to see something other that rot even though it's not ready to re string yet.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 21 Nov 2013 04:07 #31

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I want to share something with all of you since your prone to working with fiberglass. Years ago while rebuilding the front of a corvette I went in to take a shower after hours of grinding. The wife had taken the washrag out and didn't put another one in the shower. There was this nylon puff ball hanging on the faucet so I grabbed that, lathered it up with soap and took my shower. To my amazement, when I got in bed I felt NO FIBERS in my skin. So I repeated it again the next night with the same results. Ever since then, every time I do glass work of ANY kind I use it to remove all the glass fibers from my skin. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I use Dove soap with it.
Hope this helps you be more comfortable after working with fiberglass. It sure helps me.
Here's the little puff ball I use.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 21 Nov 2013 04:21 #32

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Larry, my boat's stringers forward of the engine compartment bulkhead were replaced with kiln dried rosewood and are rock solid. White oak will work just as well.

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Ed & Lindsey
Sacramento, CA
1977 Bayliner Victoria "Astral Blue"
Repowered with Perkins 4.108 Diesel
Volvo-Penta 280 Drive
MMSI #: 338127697


My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 21 Nov 2013 04:38 #33

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Another thought when you get to putting the transom back together. Use 1/4 ply and multiple layers. This will mold itself to the contour of the transom far better than 1/2 or thicker material providing you with a more solid assembly. Yes you will have to put on more layers but the tight fit and the layers of resin between each layer will make for a solid transom that you won't have to worry about. Install the replacement stringers in after you replace the transom so that they but directly to the transom and make a solid frame.

Good luck with your project.

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Patrick and Patti
4588 Pilothouse 1991
12ft Endeavor RIB 2013
M/V "Paloma"
MMSI # 338142921

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 21 Nov 2013 05:11 #34

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LRCX 2750 wrote: I want to share something with all of you since your prone to working with fiberglass. Years ago while rebuilding the front of a corvette I went in to take a shower after hours of grinding. The wife had taken the washrag out and didn't put another one in the shower. There was this nylon puff ball hanging on the faucet so I grabbed that, lathered it up with soap and took my shower. To my amazement, when I got in bed I felt NO FIBERS in my skin. So I repeated it again the next night with the same results. Ever since then, every time I do glass work of ANY kind I use it to remove all the glass fibers from my skin. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I use Dove soap with it.
Hope this helps you be more comfortable after working with fiberglass. It sure helps me.
Here's the little puff ball I use.

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I use a full body tyvec suit with hood. Rubber gloves that fit over the arms of the suit. Also one with long legs so the leg of the suit stays on my shoes. A button type dust mask.
I apply lots of baby powder to my face so fibers cant enter pores

When I'm done I pull the suit and mask off. I wash my face and I'm still clean. That way I can work my job and work on my boat with out getting all dirty and itchy. No one knows I was playing around :).

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1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge twin 454's

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hull#23

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop hull#24
Twin chevy 350's

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 21 Nov 2013 07:41 #35

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yachtman wrote:

LRCX 2750 wrote: I want to share something with all of you since your prone to working with fiberglass. Years ago while rebuilding the front of a corvette I went in to take a shower after hours of grinding. The wife had taken the washrag out and didn't put another one in the shower. There was this nylon puff ball hanging on the faucet so I grabbed that, lathered it up with soap and took my shower. To my amazement, when I got in bed I felt NO FIBERS in my skin. So I repeated it again the next night with the same results. Ever since then, every time I do glass work of ANY kind I use it to remove all the glass fibers from my skin. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I use Dove soap with it.
Hope this helps you be more comfortable after working with fiberglass. It sure helps me.
Here's the little puff ball I use.

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I use a full body tyvec suit with hood. Rubber gloves that fit over the arms of the suit. Also one with long legs so the leg of the suit stays on my shoes. A button type dust mask.
I apply lots of baby powder to my face so fibers cant enter pores

When I'm done I pull the suit and mask off. I wash my face and I'm still clean. That way I can work my job and work on my boat with out getting all dirty and itchy. No one knows I was playing around :).


I started to work with fiberglass pipe insulation and duct wrap (was the worst) when I was 18, worked with it most of my life, I was always told when showering to take a cool rinse and a luke warm shower after contact with fiberglass, reason is hot water opens the pores and the glass gets in, it works.

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Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 21 Nov 2013 14:19 #36

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I'll second the baby powder suggestion!

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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
Twin 270 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 21 Nov 2013 18:04 #37

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Now that you mention it I do have a painters suit that I can use when I get into the full on grinding. I have used to baby powder too.
I just thought I'd share this trick with all of you in case it could help someone that didn't have any of the other gear. It really works well.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 21 Nov 2013 18:24 #38

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Ive used a lint roller on my arms and neck after cutting/grinding glass.

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
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.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 21 Nov 2013 18:36 #39

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builderdude wrote: Ive used a lint roller on my arms and neck after cutting/grinding glass.


That's a good idea.

It would get it off your clothes too.

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1988 Bayliner 3288
Las Vegas in the winter, BC coast in the summer

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 21 Nov 2013 19:18 #40

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When I grind fiberglass on a boat I wear a Tyvec suit with hood and a full face respirator, booties too if I have them.

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Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
Twin 350 GM power
Located in Seward, AK
Retired marine surveyor

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 21 Nov 2013 19:43 #41

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Wow this seems to be a spreading disease among BOC members. There are several over the top projects going now.

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1986 Bayliner Contessa 2850
On the hard undergoing, a full on refit and repower, with Chevrolet 454
Making real progress now
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 22 Nov 2013 00:02 #42

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Hopefully they got to enjoy their boats a while before their rebuilds. Can you link where the other projects are? I'd like to watch theirs and maybe get some ideas as well.

OK, I have an idea and would like your opinion. Rick, 2850Bounty, said I could section the transom as long as I stagger the pieces. Today I did some investigative grinding on the transom. I cut most of the rot out when I first started this project. I found today that most of the remaining ply in there is pretty solid and well stuck to the fiberglass. There are a couple areas that will need to be replaced first, but I'm thinking of replacing the outlined area, and then do a full 3/4" transom over the top of it. I need to cut out a cardboard pattern first to see if I can get it in there in one piece, but I think it's doable. What do you think of this idea?
I'm also thinking that by leaving some of the original ply on, I wouldn't have to worry about it loosing it's shape quit so easily.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.
Last Edit: by LRCX 2750.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 22 Nov 2013 00:54 #43

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LRCX 2750 wrote: Hopefully they got to enjoy their boats a while before their rebuilds. Can you link where the other projects are? I'd like to watch theirs and maybe get some ideas as well.

OK, I have an idea and would like your opinion. Rick, 2850Bounty, said I could section the transom as long as I stagger the pieces. Today I did some investigative grinding on the transom. I cut most of the rot out when I first started this project. I found today that most of the remaining ply in there is pretty solid and well stuck to the fiberglass. There are a couple areas that will need to be replaced first, but I'm thinking of replacing the outlined area, and then do a full 3/4" transom over the top of it. I need to cut out a cardboard pattern first to see if I can get it in there in one piece, but I think it's doable. What do you think of this idea?
I'm also thinking that by leaving some of the original ply on, I wouldn't have to worry about it loosing it's shape quit so easily.

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I think that's a great idea.

While we are on the subject, you could very likely salvage the water tank as well. You can cut inspection ports on the top, scrape out the crud, and put removable port fittings in the inspection holes. Make the holes about 8-10" in dia. You don't have to do any welding.

I am really enjoying watching you progress.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 22 Nov 2013 01:41 #44

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At least someone is enjoying this. ;) I'm not right now. Way to much grinding today. :(

I've amended the last outline just in case I decide to repower the boat. I don't want to lock myself in to what I have at this point. As you can see I raised the cutout so it covers both holes. BUT, BLer's quality control may be changing that too. You can see on the left where there was a large section that didn't bond. I can fill it with epoxy I guess, but I won't be able to see how far it goes and/or grind it so it bonds well.

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As for the water tank, I'm not sure if I want an inspection plate screwed and sealed in the tank that could leak years later. I have a tig welder, so I don't mind welding it all back together. My idea it also to weld solid tubing for the connections that will be above the top of the tank/water level. That way if a connection fails it will be visible during maintenance inspections. Besides, someone decided to put a steel plug in one of the extra fittings that wasn't used. OF COARSE it's all rusted. I was also thinking of having the tank sprayed with truck bed liner before it goes back in under the floor. But that's a little ways away. We'll get into that eventually.

The day was spent doing a lot of grinding to get the port side ready for the new stringers. I still have to get the motor compartment ready, but the transom comes first. At least the first core of it.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 22 Nov 2013 03:30 #45

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Im also enjoying your project, and have my own under way as well. looks like you've wasted no time tearing out the bad stuff. nice job!! keep the updates coming, lots of guys including myself will benefit. :)

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
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.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 22 Nov 2013 06:20 #46

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Larry, you might want to take a look at this thread:

forums.iboats.com/boat-restoration-build...ring-oaf-470074.html

This guy started a full scale restoration of 1977 Victoria. He either gave up or stopped posting in the midde of the project, but lots of great pictures and advice in the thread.

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Ed & Lindsey
Sacramento, CA
1977 Bayliner Victoria "Astral Blue"
Repowered with Perkins 4.108 Diesel
Volvo-Penta 280 Drive
MMSI #: 338127697


My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 22 Nov 2013 21:17 #47

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Thanks Ed, I spent all morning cruising that and other threads that it led to. But I did get a few good ideas from them.

Anyway, with the sighting of the low spots under the old transom I decided to glue up a large piece of cardboard and do a rough pattern of the transoms shape to see if I could get it in place in one piece.
It turns out that I can, but it'll be a lot tougher with a 3/4" sheet of ply than it was with the test board. So I've changed plans to do the whole thing new. I can just imagine what may be hiding under the two small pieces and each side.
I also realized that I'm going to have to do the stringers before I cover the holes in the transom. There would be no way to get a stringer inside without going through the transom.
Since my youngest son will be here this weekend things will move a little slower, I should be able to get all the marine ply and stringers tomorrow though.
Oh, I'm waiting for the UPS truck to deliver a box of 16 grit grinding discs. I'm hoping they speed up the amount of time it takes to grind out all the excess glass. 24 grit did ok, but a little slow.

Here's my rough pattern in place. I'll feel a lot better knowing it will all be new.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 23 Nov 2013 00:57 #48

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I don't think you are gaining anything by trying to get that in one piece.

Structurally, two pieces with a horizontal seam will be just as strong.

If you put in two layers, make the seam in the second vertical.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 23 Nov 2013 12:55 #49

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Larry, as said, the "box beam" effect is what you are ultimately after.

If you can get the first core layer in in one piece, that would be great, but I don't think that it would be a deal breaker if you had to section it.
(see image below)

However, I'd sure encourage you to remove all of the old material.... unless you are absolutely confident that it is OK.

Set up a router with a straight flute cutter set to depth. Make a bunch of sections, and work these smaller sections.
Use a pneumatic chisel if need be. These smaller sections/pieces may come out easier than thought to be.

As for the cardboard template..... this is an excellent starting point.
However, doing several "dry fits" (sometimes as many as 5 or 6) is imperative for this, IMO!
This not only allows us to check our fit, but to also install as many fasteners as possible.
Once the glass/resin work begins, you won't be wanting to fumble around with fastener locations and/or fit.... including a good straight backer.
Often we'll need to add pulling screw holes that will be filled in after the work.


Edit:
I can't upload my image for some reason.
First core layers would be split down the center between the transom shield cut-outs. Second core layers would be split into thirds.
Yes.... ditto the vertical joints!


Heavy matting between the hull and both layers, fiinished off with matting and heavy roving.



Note:
Your insurance company will require a survey on this age boat.
Also, should the day come when you sell this boat, keep the transom shield cut-outs to show what was done to the transom.




.

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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
Twin 270 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 23 Nov 2013 14:34 #50

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I use 16 grit discs. It really gets with it and the resin will stick better to it. One thing is make sure that the stringer is isolated from the transom wood. Meaning not touching bare wood. Not that you.will ever have to deal with it again but some one in the future. So place a few layers of glass between the transom and stringer when you do it so if one gets rotten or wet it doesn't move from one to the other.

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1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge twin 454's

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hull#23

1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop hull#24
Twin chevy 350's
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