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TOPIC: My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 04 Dec 2013 18:09 #101

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It's looking great Larry! I wish I would have thought about putting handles on the transom when I did mine.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 04 Dec 2013 19:44 #102

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They definitely help get it in and out. We'll see how well they work during the practice run later today. I'm going to TRY and leave the beams screwed to it. But I think it's going to be too heavy for me to wrestle around with wet cloth on it.

OK, it was really cold last night. 34 degrees. When I took the temp of the transom at 8 this morning it was only 56 inside. I blame that on not having the heater in the bilge though. I covered the opening down into the bilge but I had the heater in the main cabin pointing through the cut out bulkhead. I'll seal that all off tonight and put the heater inside the bilge to contain the heat better.
Here's my hot house to retain the heat outside. As you can see the heater is pointed directly in there but not too close. Styrofoam will melt if it's too close. Just before I turned on the heater the transom was 56 degrees inside and slightly higher outside due to the sun. After 20 minutes with the heater on high the outside averaged 83-88 and the inside had reached 66. So I'm confident now that this will work just fine to kick off and cure the resin.
All the panels are pinned together with long camping tent spikes for easy and quick setup. My two dogs were sure enjoying the heat too.

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Well, it's time to take everything apart and do a practice run to see how long it takes to clamp things in place. Then I'll do the pre soaking with the thinned resin. I had to leave everything together so I could make the house fit around the outer 4x4s.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 05 Dec 2013 01:17 #103

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Well, I gave it a good try, but I just won't be able to glass in the transom without help. If I were to lay up the chop matting on the plywood, I would have to turn it over to get it into the bilge so I could slide it up into place. And the only way to get it into the bilge by myself is to drag it. That would rip off the matting even if it's stapled in place. I even tried rigging up a way to hang it from the ceiling to swing it closer to where I need it. Every way I try it's a no go. The ONLY option at this point would be to try laying the matting on the transom itself instead of on the plywood. But with two layers of matting all heavy and wet with resin I don't think it would stay in place long enough. So for now, everything is on hold until my son gets home next week. That may be tentative too since he's twisted his ankle while on the job.

So unless I come up with a brain storm in the next day or so things here are on hold. At least it will give my back time to heal and possibly the temps will raise up beyond freezing at night by then.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 05 Dec 2013 01:51 #104

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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 05 Dec 2013 02:27 #105

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LRCX 2750 wrote: Well, I gave it a good try, but I just won't be able to glass in the transom without help. If I were to lay up the chop matting on the plywood, I would have to turn it over to get it into the bilge so I could slide it up into place. And the only way to get it into the bilge by myself is to drag it. That would rip off the matting even if it's stapled in place. I even tried rigging up a way to hang it from the ceiling to swing it closer to where I need it. Every way I try it's a no go. The ONLY option at this point would be to try laying the matting on the transom itself instead of on the plywood. But with two layers of matting all heavy and wet with resin I don't think it would stay in place long enough. So for now, everything is on hold until my son gets home next week. That may be tentative too since he's twisted his ankle while on the job.

So unless I come up with a brain storm in the next day or so things here are on hold. At least it will give my back time to heal and possibly the temps will raise up beyond freezing at night by then.


Just out of curiosity, why do you need two layers of matting?

For that matter, why do you need any matting?

What am I missing here?

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1988 Bayliner 3288
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 05 Dec 2013 02:36 #106

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Matting makes it stronger and also holds the resin when its pulled together to better fill any possible voids between the two sheets.

Having voids can create condensation inside the void areas causing dry rot from within with out any physical water penetration. Its best to make sure the lamination is tight as possible.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 05 Dec 2013 02:39 #107

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yachtman wrote: Matting makes it stronger and also holds the resin when its pulled together to better fill any possible voids between the two sheets.

Having voids can create condensation inside the void areas causing dry rot from within with out any physical water penetration. Its best to make sure the lamination is tight as possible.


Okay, I guess.

But two layers?

What's your take on this Rick?

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 05 Dec 2013 03:01 #108

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Rick, after a day like this, your timing with the captions couldn't have been timelier. I laughed for a few minutes over that. Thanks!

Malayphred, back before I pulled the entire transom plywood out I found a low section that had never been bonded. Because of this, and what David explained, I need to ensure a full bond that will fill any low areas especially after doing all the grinding with the 16 grit disc. Two layers will ensure a full contact bond that will take up any uneven areas as well as added strength. I don't mind doing overkill as long as it lasts another 30 years.
This was the void BL left in there. It turned out to be over twice as large as what shows here.

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1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 05 Dec 2013 03:29 #109

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malayphred wrote:

  1. Just out of curiosity, why do you need two layers of matting?
  2. For that matter, why do you need any matting?
  3. What am I missing here?

******************
  1. The original transom hull structure is not perfectly flat. The core layer plywood is going to be rather flat and straight.
    As Dave said, the matting and resin is what makes the bond between the hull structure and plywood core.
    Two layers of matting will not only help to fill any voids, it will also be structurally stronger in the process of creating the box beam affect.

  2. See above.

  3. Possibly the experience that some of us have had.

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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 05 Dec 2013 03:42 #110

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Keep on keepin on! Your doing an excellent job on this transom fix/ rebuild. IMO
A true "craftsman"
Keep the pics coming
Loving it,

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 05 Dec 2013 04:11 #111

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2850Bounty wrote:

malayphred wrote:

  1. Just out of curiosity, why do you need two layers of matting?
  2. For that matter, why do you need any matting?
  3. What am I missing here?

******************
  1. The original transom hull structure is not perfectly flat. The core layer plywood is going to be rather flat and straight.
    As Dave said, the matting and resin is what makes the bond between the hull structure and plywood core.
    Two layers of matting will not only help to fill any voids, it will also be structurally stronger in the process of creating the box beam affect.

  2. See above.

  3. Possibly the experience that some of us have had.


Oh.

Allrighty then :P

This makes perfect sense.

I have been envisioning a fairly straight transom - with all those 4x4 stiffeners.

Your #3 is dead on. I have absolutely zero, zip, nada, experience in this.

I'm fascinated with the whole project, but hoping I never have to do it.

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1988 Bayliner 3288
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 05 Dec 2013 05:22 #112

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I think I'm glad I didn't get the transom laminated in today.I just looked at tonight's forecast and it's supposed to be down to 23 degrees. I would have been up all night making sure the propane heater didn't run out of fuel. Guess i'll find other things to do till this freeze slides out of town.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 05 Dec 2013 11:44 #113

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malayphred wrote: I'm fascinated with the whole project, but hoping I never have to do it.


****************

I too hope that you never need to do this.
However, it can be rather fun once you get passed the demolition work. That's the nasty part. :evil:

Once past that, it's really just carpentry work, and can be rather fun.
I should say "fun" for those of us "sicko's" who enjoy this stuff. :silly:

If you don't enjoy this stuff, hire it done $$$$$$$$$$$$.


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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 05 Dec 2013 16:03 #114

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LRCX 2750 wrote: I think I'm glad I didn't get the transom laminated in today.I just looked at tonight's forecast and it's supposed to be down to 23 degrees. I would have been up all night making sure the propane heater didn't run out of fuel. Guess i'll find other things to do till this freeze slides out of town.


Where are you located?

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1988 Bayliner 3288
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 05 Dec 2013 16:30 #115

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I'm in Sacramento Ca. This cold is way under the average temps this time of year. The last time this happened, 15+ years ago or longer, there was lots of people that lost boat motors because they didn't know to drain the block and exhaust manifolds. I suspect it's going to be that way again this year.

As Rick said, the woodwork IS the fun part. That's what I was working towards by getting the transom installed. I just fell behind and didn't get it in time. So far it's going to be below freezing at night for at least a week. But who knows just how long it's going to last. The only real progress I can achieve is to pull out all the starboard side rot. But I really wanted to leave all that in till the port side was done. Oh well, I'm sure I'll figure out something to do.

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1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 05 Dec 2013 16:41 #116

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LRCX 2750 wrote: I'm in Sacramento Ca. This cold is way under the average temps this time of year. The last time this happened, 15+ years ago or longer, there was lots of people that lost boat motors because they didn't know to drain the block and exhaust manifolds. I suspect it's going to be that way again this year.

As Rick said, the woodwork IS the fun part. That's what I was working towards by getting the transom installed. I just fell behind and didn't get it in time. So far it's going to be below freezing at night for at least a week. But who knows just how long it's going to last. The only real progress I can achieve is to pull out all the starboard side rot. But I really wanted to leave all that in till the port side was done. Oh well, I'm sure I'll figure out something to do.


Sacramento!!

Way cool.

We spent Thanksgiving with family in El Dorado Hills.

It looks like it will be warming up there starting Monday. You should be good to go soon.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 06 Dec 2013 22:58 #117

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The last couple days has been torturer just sitting around. But today I got a call from a friend of mine that got back in town. So, I got busy rolling a couple thinned coats of resin into the plywood and a coat of unthinned on the transom. I also filled any low spots using the grindings and chopped fibers to make the paste. Once it was ready I closed up the bilge and pointed the heater through the transom. In a short time the temp was in the low 80s as you can see by the thermometer hanging in the cabin. I checked all the surfaces after an hour and the resin has already set and tacky except for the thicker filler in the corners of the transom. With my temp gun I found everything inside the boat is at 76 degrees. Sooo, I think I've beat mother nature. At least at this point anyway. I think I'll wait to glass in the transom until tomorrow though. It's almost 3pm and I want to be able to monitor things for at least 6 to 8 hours after it's laid up. It'll be dark in a couple hours and the temps will be dropping again very quickly. But for now, I'm ready if I can get my buddy over here early tomorrow.

All soaked up and ready.

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The styrofoam you see is what I have covering the bilge opening to keep the heat in.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Dec 2013 23:08 #118

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THE TRANSOM IS FINALLY IN! WoooHooo!!
The last couple days didn't go as planned, but they never do. My buddy fell asleep the first day, and on the way over yesterday morning got run off the road and popped his tire.
The help came from my oldest son that got back in town. He was here at 9am so we could set things up and do a few practice dry runs. That ended up being a good idea too. With all the planning and practice we got to work about 11am. The nice part is that I was able to lay up both layers of chop cloth on the transom without it sliding out of place instead of stapling in on the plywood. That made it much easier to get the plywood up in place with only a coat of resin on it instead of the resin AND cloth. When we clamped it in place with all the 4x4s it was nice to see all the air being squeezed out through the extra 1/4" holes I drilled throughout the plywood. That ensured there were no air pockets trapped inside. Now it's time to sit back and let the heaters do their job of kicking off the resin and let it cure.

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So far the transom temp is averaging 85 degrees.

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Inside the bilge is two electric heaters keeping the temp up with it sealed up to keep the heat in.

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Soon I'll be able to post progress on the stringers and interior.

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Sacramento, CA.
1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 08 Dec 2013 23:52 #119

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Will you put another layer of plywood on the transom?

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 09 Dec 2013 00:09 #120

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Yes, I have one more to add. But I need to get the stringers in place first so they are under the second layer with a cutout for them to tuck under. Of coarse there will be fiberglass between the stringers and plywood so if by some chance one part gets wet in the future, it won't be able to transfer the water to the adjoining wood. But the second layer of the transom won't be added till all the stringers are in.

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1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 09 Dec 2013 00:16 #121

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That makes sense.

Cool idea drilling the relief holes to let the resin squeeze out. I would have never thought of that.

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1988 Bayliner 3288
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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 09 Dec 2013 01:18 #122

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I can't take credit for that. I found that idea by searching and reading a lot of other peoples work on the internet. Just like cutting out the plywood around the drain plug at the bottom of the transom. There will be several layers of glass instead of plywood. That way when the hole is drilled for the drain there won't EVER be any water that could leak in and saturate the wood. Lots of good ideas out there. But it takes a lot of research and reading to come up with them.

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1979 27' Bayliner Victoria W/fly bridge. 2X/Volvo AQ140A, with 2X/44 PHN3 solex side draft carbs. 280 outdrives.

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 09 Dec 2013 01:31 #123

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LRCX 2750 wrote: Yes, I have one more to add. But I need to get the stringers in place first so they are under the second layer with a cutout for them to tuck under. Of coarse there will be fiberglass between the stringers and plywood so if by some chance one part gets wet in the future, it won't be able to transfer the water to the adjoining wood. But the second layer of the transom won't be added till all the stringers are in.

Is it necessary to tuck stringers under the second core layer? I read somewhere ( on BOC I think) that it didn't necessarily have to be done that way as long as it was all glassed in real good.
Im no expert so I was just wondering others think?
Nice job!

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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 09 Dec 2013 01:50 #124

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I'm sure by the time this is all done there are going to be a lot of small issues that I will do with OVERKILL attention to. It probably isn't necessary to tuck the stringers under the second layer. But why take a chance if I have a choice. Rick told me I really didn't need to use 4x4s inside and out to clamp the transom in place, but it was only a few dollars more to ensure the clamping was straight and stout. So in the end decision, WHY NOT!
I told my son today I should name the boat overkill. At least I'll know I've done everything I can to make it last.

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My 27' Victoria UNPLANNED project. 09 Dec 2013 05:35 #125

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How thick will the transom be with the original glass and two sheets of plywood?
I ask because the transom shields for your drives need a minimum thickness.
I am not sure about Mercs. but Volvo need something like 2 1/8" min. I think?

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