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TOPIC: Planned Electronics Upgrade

Planned Electronics Upgrade 19 Sep 2017 06:20 #1

  • simbad
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Ok interested in any opinions on planned electronics update.
Bit of context first. I know there are all kinds of bells and whistles I could be going for, the tech just keeps going, but I find when I am on the boat what I really want to do is plot a simple route. and be able to see where I am going, not a lot more than that. so while I know I can do all kinds of upgrades I am planning to keep things simple and improve things without spending crazy money. I am also trying to do this myself. which will be fun (not) and also is why I am trying to keep it simple.

what I have now:
in the pilot house:
Right-I have an older raymarine e120 this also is how I view the engine room and rear view camera. I never use it for nave today just for the rear view cam.
Middle I have a monitor powered by a laptop that runs nobeltec, this is my main navigation screen that I use all the time.
left I have an old raymarine radar unit open array, thos old green screens, but it functions well
left left- an old raymarine depth sounder (never use it, never even switch it on) (I do have a newer depth sounder above the helm station that I refer to for depths)

On the bridge:
same standalone depth sounder for depths
Large curved screen monitor that repeats the nav below and controlled with mouse- works great just like the unit below.

I have no radar up top, I cannot view rear view cams up top AIS is on both set ups and so here is what I plan to do.

Replace the older e120 unit with a newer unit from Raymarine, I think it makes sense to keep it raymarine as everything else on the boat is, guessing this will make compatibility better too. I am thinking Axiom Pro, or GS series or maybe Es Series but need to do a little more research. I am thinking Es is probably fine, as I doubt I will use the stuff on the others.

I am then considering the quantum radar, primarily because It uses wifi and if I am installing then I don't need the hassle of routing new radar cabling but can connect power and be done. I have heard this actually works quite well. I would keep the older open array radar for redundancy.
I would remove the old depth sounder in the pilot house and add an ipad, idea there is to be able to view the cameras from the new MFD and can always use the ipad for Netflix etc on longer trips.

up top I would move my main monitor from the nobeltc further back and use it for nav on longer range view. I would then add anoter ipad up top to replicate the raymarine below and be able to view the radar, the cameras etc.

so basically new Raymarine MFD, new radar through wifi, ipads added to replicate the raymarine in both spaces.

Any thoughts?
I know some considerations that I need to look in to.
the sounder transducer I have must be old, and I know I could get much better quality but I don't want to have to haul the boat for this electronics update, if there are valid reasons to do it I cold consider at next haul out.
I am not 100% sure I can view the camera feeds on the ipad and still use the other screens for navigation/plotting at the same time
I am not sure if that wifi radar is good enough for me and my size of boat, my gut tells me electronics gurus would say its not enough. my gut also tells me it's probably all I need.

Be awesome to get any input.

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 19 Sep 2017 15:33 #2

  • Uncle Bob
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I retrofitted wireless Quantum and it is great. You can get a new MFD like a C or E 127 for your base at the lower station and everything it shows (charts,radar, sounder, cameras etc) will show on a repeater up top (C125 or E125) and perhaps your E120 might work as a repeater up top. You can use an "in-hull" transducer to avoid a haul-out. They work fine but without water temperature. Everything will appear on the iPad, but I like a dedicated Raymarine repeater screen.

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1989 26' then 1994 32' now 2001 39'

Planned Electronics Upgrade 19 Sep 2017 16:39 #3

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Thanks. Good to hear you like the radar. No issues with it dropping connection?

I just don't know if I actually need a new transducer I think I can probably use what I have now. Guessing I miss some fidelity but for all my years boating I have just used depth on chart and the actual depth reading from the sounder in feet. I know I can get contour views etc. but do I really need them hasn't been an issue in the last 10 years!

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 19 Sep 2017 17:42 #4

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No issues with dropped connection. No issues at all. Great with radar overlaid on chart. My older Raymarine transducer would give digital readout on the new MFD but not graphic. If digital readout works for you, you're likely good. I added an AIS VHF which is a really good addition.

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1989 26' then 1994 32' now 2001 39'

Planned Electronics Upgrade 19 Sep 2017 18:27 #5

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One other consideration. There is a 2nd radar that is not functioning that I would remove. You can see it (just) in the pic below. Is it an issue that it is right next to the sat dish. Would this block the radar to the starboard side and so would I need to raise rhe new radar placement above the height of the sat dish?

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 19 Sep 2017 18:30 #6

  • W8N4SUN
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We upgraded our electronics this year and have been super happy with the results.

Raymarine: Axiom 12, Quantum wifi radar, autopilot, AIS rx/tx, wind meter and Standard Horizon radio/hailer. Then we have an iPad 12.9" with RAM mounts running Navionics as backup as well as being able to run RayControl to mimic and control the Axiom functions.

Visibility has not been a problem, the speed of the MFD outstanding, and having radar/chart/depth/wind/autopilot all integrated has made cruising that much more stressfree and comfortable. Of course having paper charts and Navionics as redundant information is good to have.

I bought all the gear from Coleman Marine Systems and they did the installation as well. Great discount from list pricing and service has been excellent.

www.colemanmarinesystems.com/

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 19 Sep 2017 20:08 #7

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Quick question on the iPad set up.
Can you only mirror the ray marine display or could you run one view on the iPad and a separate view on the dedicated raymarine unit.
I ask as I'd like to be able to use the camera view mirrored and still have nav visible on the dedicated unit.

Glad you like your set up :)

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 19 Sep 2017 21:33 #8

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FWIW I'm also looking at installing Raymarine components. I'm waiting for the Axiom Pro since they have knobs on the side as well as touch screen. When my hands are cold and/or wet the touch screen is not always reliable- using a keypad adds another connection to maintain. I also believe it's worth your while to wait for the next haul and upgrade your transducer. It's my understanding that the new ones reduce or eliminate the false thermocline readings. No matter what my charts say, I still stop breathing when my old sounder is telling me there's not enough water. Old baggage from the days when GPS didn't always tell you where you were. Murphy's Law also says the bluetooth will fail when I most need it, so I'll hard-wire the radome. Apparently the cable is much thinner so maybe use the old one to feed the new?

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 19 Sep 2017 21:35 #9

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My Radar is in line with my sat dish with no interference between them. HOWEVER...I don't have each on when underway. In other words no interference but only one is on at one time. As far as the iPad, you can use the Raymarine app and mirror the MFD screen or run the iPad on its own Navionics.

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 19 Sep 2017 22:08 #10

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All great input. Glad folks like the raymarine as I normally get the Garmin is better feedback :) I like Garmin and used it for years but I think it's what you get used to.

Just to clarify on my iPad question.
Can you be running nav on the raymarine unit and access the video stream from the raymarine On the iPad at the same time. I am thinking not. You are basically controlling and getting a mirror image. Correct ?

Uncle bob. I find that if I switch my sat receiver off can take a long time to get signal again. Do you have the same? Doesn't really bother me as I use it very infrequently. But curious if yours is the same ?

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 19 Sep 2017 22:44 #11

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The Raymarine stream to iPad is an app. You can flip between apps, but not a split screen.
I have my sat receiver off when I am not watching. It takes a minute or so to lock in from a dead start. Mine is Intelian brand.If the sat receiver is off for long periods (weeks) then it might need a burst from the sat provider to wake it up.

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 19 Sep 2017 23:52 #12

  • W8N4SUN
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I don't think I can view independent Raymarine screens on the iPad but will check tonight when I swing by the dock. I can control via the iPad but doubt I can view different screens. In reality I havent used the iPad to control Raymarine, but do run Navionics as a backup if Raymarine goes dark. I also have independent depth sounders as I vigilant about running aground.

If I had your size boat I'd recommend going with the hardwire radar, one less thing to sync when multiple devices are running.

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 20 Sep 2017 00:29 #13

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Simbad, lots of research is required to ensure no surprises or regrets later. The new Axiom's won't work yet with the eS models (different software) although they say there is a plan down the track to be able to integrate them. So check whether your subsystems will link together as well.

Next if you are going with the Quantum radar, then ditch your helicopter array. Having both is redundant not to mention the real estate for placement and I'm uncertain whether they will work together anyway (signal confusion). Do you have an autopilot to integrate as well?? That will need a small N2K backbone and nG converter to drive/integrate your autopilot from the MFD. RM Nmea2000 fittings are proprietary and connectivity is a hassle if you decide on another MFD brand.

You also need to figure out what depth transducers will match it. Es128 require a different chirp transducer, vs the eS127 that will accept a regular digital transducer, but watch the compatibility of the cable plugs etc. A lift and hold in the slings for an hour or so while you drill a hole in the hull to fit the transducer, wouldn't cost a lot either.

Just a thought, what year is your 5788? My neighbor has a 580 (2010) with E120's so it may be some subsystems can interconnect if they are already digital vs analog. In any event, if it were me, I'd be looking at a couple of screens downstairs and another on the flybridge.

As I said, planning and research up front will pay dividends even to what cabling is required between systems etc. RM have some rebates running now, but look at reman units around or on eBay if you're looking to economise.

Have fun! Cheers

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John H
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Planned Electronics Upgrade 20 Sep 2017 01:32 #14

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That's great advice. I have an electronics tech coming Thursday so I can check compatibility and agree a plan. Might make sense not to do it myself as I am clearly not an expert in this field.

I'll keep folks posted !

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 20 Sep 2017 05:31 #15

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Hey there simbad...

You know how I set up Omega and would love to tallk with you about anything you'd like. That said, in my opinion, whatever you do, I would be sure to integrate a good NMEA 2000 backbone from one end of the system to the other, as you go, when you're running new wiring and such.

As for the equipment, I tend to be Garmin bias, as unlike ray marine and others, there is not much propietary interconnects (cabling, etc) and such . This saves a ton when interfacing things like infrared cameras, rear cameras, digitizing the guages (thinking future projects).

As for the sonar I wouldn't consider anything less than CHIRP technology. As our draft is pretty deep, when compared to others, I am always worried and try to be VERY conscience of my depth and surroundings. I installed down-view, side-view and traditional sonar transducers which feed through all my garmin screens, which by the way, can be controlled remotely thru various iPads, and such. This winter I am installing a new forward view transducer so I can see as much as possible. All the transducers integrate with the screens flawlessly and can be swapped around depending upon how you set the system up .

When I tried to figure out how to integrate old system stuff with new, it made things seem more expensive than just replacing everything from new. Installing a new system can seem huge, but isn't too bad. It ultimately makes things integrate easier in the long run. You can reuse some things, though.

As for the radar, I like the new garmin systems. I carry dual open array HD2 and Fantom systems (4 and 6 foot arrays). Depending on what you want to do with your boat, depends upon the radar . They are incredible in so many ways. I like the way I can integrate iPads and control things in every aspect. I like leaving the set. I'm planning on cruising to Alaska the next year or so so I've been settgih I the boat accordingly with back up systems, etc.

Ultimately , the system is really dependent on what you need it for. I love my touch screens and the ability to control them via iPads. I like being at anchor in the cabin and being able to look around the the boat and check depth, location etc... it makes it nice to be able to use iPad as additional screens when you set the system up differently between the bridge and the pilot house, Because you can set up the screens in a mirriad of ways, it allows you to set things up the best for iPad viewing.

I hope this helps.. Good luck,

BJ
OMEGA

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 20 Sep 2017 16:22 #16

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Thanks BJ.
Now, as much as i'd love a set up like yours, I think i'm trying to save a few $$ and get just what I need. that said, after our post I did a little more research on CHIRP and I get it. I think this is a must have, so added to the list.
I have a guy coming from Harris Electric in Seattle on Thursday to get some ideas on what I have now and what I need so i'll add that to the list.
Any opinions on harris electric if anyone has used them?

I like the referral from coleman marine systems below too, so might give them a call for a second quote.

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 20 Sep 2017 18:21 #17

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As I suspected the RayControl app will not allow the iPad to view independent screens from the MFD. It can mimic and control but not view a separate screen.

Say hi to Brian Coleman for me, he and his team are fantastic and you will like the results.

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 21 Sep 2017 03:48 #18

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You're welcome, buddy...

I would look at the garmin 7600 or 7400 series plotter as if you get the "xsv" of that series, it has the CHIRP built into it, along with built in wifi,etc. The built in wifi and CHIRP simplifies things so you don't have to have separate modules/hardware to make it work like on the 8000 series screens. A good quality set up for a pretty reasonable price would be something ilike a 7410xsv or 7610xsv with hd2 radar with a nice downview/side view transducer set. You can probably get by using the existing transducer for now, but buying a unit with CHIRP will give the ability to expand in the future, as would choosing a manufacturer, be it garmin, ray marine, etc...

I know there is a lot out there, but be aware of reverse compatibility and the support. It's very important for future expansion. I thing Garmin and ray marine and furuno,etc do pretty good. My screens I have expanded over the years and added many features, from cameras to sensors. Like I said before, it's been nice using Garmin as I have been able to adapt many things other than garmin and it works great. Having good compatibility with NMEA 0183 and NMEA 2000 has and will make it really nice. The biggest thing I would do regardless of what you choose, I would run extra wire and cat 5/6 wire for cameras and future things if/when you run other wiring different places.

I hope this helps.... Oh...another thing to consider is an AIS transciever... and maybe a compatible updated gps/ais VHF radio... it's nice to have a it is something that is handy on the radar ,not to mention the safety factor..

I can't wait to hear what you come up with..

BJ
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Planned Electronics Upgrade 21 Sep 2017 03:57 #19

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Thanks again, the boat already has AIS, and a vesper wifi network, you already convinced me o a CHIRP transducer after looking around today. now just need to put all the pieces together...

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 21 Sep 2017 04:04 #20

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I'm glad I could help...let me know if I can help in any way... upgrades are so exciting... oops! I hate when my inner geek slips out! :dry:

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 21 Sep 2017 15:44 #21

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simbad wrote: One other consideration. There is a 2nd radar that is not functioning that I would remove. You can see it (just) in the pic below. Is it an issue that it is right next to the sat dish. Would this block the radar to the starboard side and so would I need to raise rhe new radar placement above the height of the sat dish?

I believe the sat dome could cause a "shadow" of detection for the new radar. The FG dome itself likely not an issue, but any metal parts of the satellite antenna could deflect the radar signal and cause any targets on that side of the radar to be missed. The closer the satdome is to the radar, the wider the shadow caused and the bigger the area that the radar can miss targets. I would suggest placing the new radar above the satdome to give it a clear view. An electronics tech would be able to advise you on this.

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 22 Sep 2017 05:29 #22

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Though Joe is correct about a possible shadowing effects of the radar signal by a satellite antenna being in the same plain as the array (beam), the biggest concern is not particularly shadowing. The biggest concern and thing to be aware of in locating a radar array near a satellite antenna of any type,, is the beam from the radar causing permanent damage to the satellite antenna from its beam (radiation). To prevent permanent damage,the satellite antenna should always be located under,above or between the beam(s) of a radar sweap beam. It sometimes takes a little preplanning, it isn't too difficult to do.

On Omega, I was able to find a sweet spot below my sweeps. As I installed two arrays,i was careful to lay things out so I could install another sat antenna between the beams in the future. As a side note, I have a metal bar behind my lower array that supports my larger array,lights and cameras and do not see any shadowing on my system.

I've attached a picture of Omega's arrays. Unfortunately I don't have a clear picture of my sat antenna. It's on the far side of the lower array.

I hope this helps,
BJ

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 22 Sep 2017 16:09 #23

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Interesting that's exactly what the tech told me last night. I might be leaning towards Garmin now. Thinking one of the screens you recommended. New radar. Chirp down/side view. I might still keep the original radar for redundancy. Then update my pc and monitors for the nobeltec.

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Planned Electronics Upgrade 24 Sep 2017 02:39 #24

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If you have not check out Simrad you I would suggest that as well. We have NSO Evo 2 (2 17" screens) and an NSS9 on fly bridge. Plus Forward Scan and there structure scan, autopilot, GPS, 4G Radar (which is amazing detail we picking up birds with it yesterday and it is dual range so you can one one screen at 2 miles and one at 1/2 mile for example).plus N2k network it was super simple to add in Fusion UD750, 2 Nolands and FLowscan and the displays see everything. Working on adding n2k tank senders in the near future for even better fuel management.

Also Simrads support and update process is simple and easy which I like

Just sharing as lots of features and glass bridge looks great.

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Mark
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Planned Electronics Upgrade 24 Sep 2017 05:41 #25

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simbad wrote: Interesting that's exactly what the tech told me last night. I might be leaning towards Garmin now......


If there's any questions I can help with, buddy, don't hesitate to give me a call....

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