Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC: AC issue on 1989 3818....

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 28 Aug 2017 16:18 #1

  • davesisk
  • davesisk's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 386
  • Thank you received: 30
The main cabin AC temperature (as measured with a laser thermometer on the vanes on the air flow duct) is about 73 degrees (outside temp of 85-90 degrees). I checked the 2nd AC for the staterooms...temperature at the air duct is 61 degrees, so it's definitely not performing the same. Water flow looks fine (I'll check/clean the sea-strainer this coming weekend), and the temperature of the water expelled from the mid-ships thru-hull doesn't feel particularly hot (just warm).

What do you guys think? Needs a refrigerant recharge? Or something else?

Another question: Where IS the main cabin AC/heat unit? It's somewhere under the inside helm, but I can't see it. Is it behind the fridge (such that you have to pull the fridge out to access it), or tucked under the "false floor" directly beneath the starboard side of the inside helm?

I don't know a lot about AC units, but I did manage to identify that the thermostat had failed a couple months ago, and replaced that myself. It was working fine for the past couple months, and now we've just noticed it's not cooling particularly well.

Thanks in advance for any advice/help!
Dave

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last Edit: by davesisk.

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 28 Aug 2017 18:42 #2

  • Cool Beans
  • Cool Beans's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 182
  • Thank you received: 29
What's the issue? It's 73 inside and 90 outside? Sounds like it is working to me ;) If it's not cycling like you are expecting, realize you are trying to cool off a non-insulated plastic box. Mine will cycle in an approx. 15 degree difference between inside and out (kind of depends), but when the sun is up and beating on the boat, it will just run and run...unless I turn the temp up to get within that window.

I would say they are fine. Do you have electronic controls or the old school dials? I have dials in the master stateroom, and a newer unit with electronic controls in the salon. I can actually see the temp I set mine too and then monitor it against and indoor/outdoor thermometer I have. It's pretty slick.

Salon AC, on my boat, is under the hatch right behind the lower helm. The intake grill is in that wall. The outside of the wall is the hull which is one reason why it has trouble cycling in temperature extremes.
Master AC, on my boat, is up forward under the bed.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

. . .It places the lotion in the Basket. . .and that basket happens to be in a 1987 Bayliner 3870 w/ Hino 175's

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 28 Aug 2017 20:14 #3

  • davesisk
  • davesisk's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 386
  • Thank you received: 30

Cool Beans wrote: What's the issue? It's 73 inside and 90 outside? Sounds like it is working to me ;) If it's not cycling like you are expecting, realize you are trying to cool off a non-insulated plastic box. Mine will cycle in an approx. 15 degree difference between inside and out (kind of depends), but when the sun is up and beating on the boat, it will just run and run...unless I turn the temp up to get within that window.

The temp at the air vent where cold air blows out is 73...it's about 85 degrees in the salon with it around 90 degrees outside, however. The temp from the vent should be low 60's, like the master stateroom AC. The thermostat seems to be working fine (old manual dial type)...the compressor is cycled on almost all of the time though. Again, it sounds like low refrigerant to me. And no, it's not working as it should or as it has been for the past year. ;)

Cool Beans wrote: Salon AC, on my boat, is under the hatch right behind the lower helm. The intake grill is in that wall. The outside of the wall is the hull which is one reason why it has trouble cycling in temperature extremes.


Hmmm...I don't think I HAVE a hatch just aft of the lower helm...but I could be wrong (maybe there's one there and I just don't know it...the prior owner put in some flooring without making provisions to open the floor hatches). You're NOT referring to the main hatch over the starboard engine in the salon but a 2nd salon hatch just in front of the lower helm, correct? I'll check this weekend.

Thanks!
Dave

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last Edit: by davesisk.

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 29 Aug 2017 02:12 #4

  • Cool Beans
  • Cool Beans's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 182
  • Thank you received: 29
Oops! I must have misread your post then :pinch:

But I can help with the salon AC...at least its location on my boat! Here is a picture:

This message has an attachment image.
Please log in or register to see it.

The following user(s) said Thank You: davesisk

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

. . .It places the lotion in the Basket. . .and that basket happens to be in a 1987 Bayliner 3870 w/ Hino 175's

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 29 Aug 2017 02:34 #5

  • kev_rm
  • kev_rm's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • 1987 3870 Hino 175's
  • Posts: 236
  • Thank you received: 31
Not totally clear on what you are measuring?

Normally you measure the air temp at the inlet and the outlet. 20F difference is good. 15ish is OK probably needs coils cleaned. Less than that REALLY needs cleaning or leaking/needs recharge. If you look at the coils what indicates needs cleaning is the whole thing is frozen - not enough airflow. If its only frozen or cold at the bottom then recharge.

Both my 1987 units are toast at this stage. I've replaced the aft unit with a new one and the forward one I am limping along with a recharge at the moment.



davesisk wrote: The main cabin AC temperature (as measured with a laser thermometer on the vanes on the air flow duct) is about 73 degrees (outside temp of 85-90 degrees). I checked the 2nd AC for the staterooms...temperature at the air duct is 61 degrees, so it's definitely not performing the same. Water flow looks fine (I'll check/clean the sea-strainer this coming weekend), and the temperature of the water expelled from the mid-ships thru-hull doesn't feel particularly hot (just warm).

What do you guys think? Needs a refrigerant recharge? Or something else?

Another question: Where IS the main cabin AC/heat unit? It's somewhere under the inside helm, but I can't see it. Is it behind the fridge (such that you have to pull the fridge out to access it), or tucked under the "false floor" directly beneath the starboard side of the inside helm?

I don't know a lot about AC units, but I did manage to identify that the thermostat had failed a couple months ago, and replaced that myself. It was working fine for the past couple months, and now we've just noticed it's not cooling particularly well.

Thanks in advance for any advice/help!
Dave

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 30 Aug 2017 02:07 #6

  • davesisk
  • davesisk's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 386
  • Thank you received: 30
Cool Beans, thank you for that pic! I had no idea there's a hatch there...the prior owner's flooring has it completely covered with no provisions for opening that hatch (I'll change that). I knew that AC unit was in there somewhere, just couldn't figure out how to get to it!

Kev_rm...thanks for those details, much appreciated!

Anyone know what refrigerant these older units use and if it's even still available? I'm assuming it's available, but probably ridiculously expensive...

Cheers,
Dave

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last Edit: by davesisk.

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 30 Aug 2017 02:22 #7

  • Cool Beans
  • Cool Beans's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 182
  • Thank you received: 29
No problem! Makes you want to smack the PO right up side the head, right?
LoL

OLD hvac might be R12...My forward unit is 20 years old (not factory original) and is R22 I think...it has a bad pressure relief switch that I bypassed and some other issues. It works, but I don't want to go into winter living on the boat when I will need the reverse cycle heat. So, today I finally ponied up the dough to buy a new FCF Webasto 12k BTU reverse cycle unit with the new fancy quiet compressor and R410a refrigerant. Digital controller, no more knobs, dehumidify cycle, should be drop in. $1500 shipped from Defender. Not gloating, but kind of :whistle:

EDIT: The point of my post was along the lines of the advice I got from Trawler Forum when I asked about repairing my old forward unit. I was going to spend $500 to repair a 20 year old unit. If it worked, I still had a 20 year old unit I spent $500 on :( 20 year old anything really owes me nothing, so...time for new :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

. . .It places the lotion in the Basket. . .and that basket happens to be in a 1987 Bayliner 3870 w/ Hino 175's
Last Edit: by Cool Beans.

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 30 Aug 2017 03:10 #8

  • RPrather
  • RPrather's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Mankato,Mn
  • Posts: 184
  • Thank you received: 37
Its more than likely it's R-22 which at this time is $850.00 dealer cost for a 30 pound cylinder. These marine systems typically hold between 3 and 5 pounds.
The temp drop should be about 20 degrees towards the end of the cycle.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1995 2858 7.4 B2 (Present boat)
1988 2655 460 KC
1987 2150 5.0 Cobra
Commercial/Ind HVAC/R Service Tech.

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 30 Aug 2017 04:32 #9

  • davesisk
  • davesisk's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 386
  • Thank you received: 30
Cool Beans...this one? www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1&id=2846502

You made some good points about the age of the units...

Dave

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 21 Sep 2017 14:48 #10

  • davesisk
  • davesisk's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 386
  • Thank you received: 30
I dug into that hatch last weekend (thanks again for that pic, Cool Beans). Unit is easily accessible when you know where the hatch is. :P

Nothing frozen I could see, and now only about a 5 degree temp difference between in and out...definitely sounds like it needs a recharge. For it to degrade this quickly though, I'd assume it has developed a refrigerant leak. It uses 17 oz of R22...it might be worth picking up a 15 oz can (around $50 or so) and recharging it to see if I can get another season out of it.

It's a 16K BTU unit (main salon...MarineAir model VR16K-H), which I'd assume is probably the original and thus 28 years old. Any suggestion on drop-in replacements?

Cheers,
Dave

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 21 Sep 2017 15:09 #11

  • p91473
  • p91473's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 521
  • Thank you received: 48
If you are not reading 57 degrees out the exit of the vent the unit is not cooling to capacity. I live in hot, humid Florida, 93 and 80% humidity all summer long and both ACs read 57 degrees as the vents. Water temp is 86...

FYI: I purchased that Webasco unit about 18 months ago. It works, but not the greatest. My 1997 vintage Cruise Air up forward is a much better unit. If I could do it again I would spend more to get a better quality unit. The digital display is junk, the remote stopped working.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1997 3788/Cummins 6BTA 5.9 M2s (Sold)
2003 Silverton 42c/Cummins 480CEs
2014 Sea Fox 22 Center Console
2006 Boston Whaler 13 Sport

Vero Beach, Fl.

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 24 Sep 2017 15:15 #12

  • kev_rm
  • kev_rm's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • 1987 3870 Hino 175's
  • Posts: 236
  • Thank you received: 31
No air conditioning unit on the planet would measure 57F w/ 110F input. Need to Measure the difference.


p91473 wrote: If you are not reading 57 degrees out the exit of the vent the unit is not cooling to capacity. I live in hot, humid Florida, 93 and 80% humidity all summer long and both ACs read 57 degrees as the vents. Water temp is 86...

FYI: I purchased that Webasco unit about 18 months ago. It works, but not the greatest. My 1997 vintage Cruise Air up forward is a much better unit. If I could do it again I would spend more to get a better quality unit. The digital display is junk, the remote stopped working.

The following user(s) said Thank You: smitty477

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 28 Sep 2017 22:04 #13

  • p91473
  • p91473's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 521
  • Thank you received: 48

kev_rm wrote: No air conditioning unit on the planet would measure 57F w/ 110F input. Need to Measure the difference.


p91473 wrote: If you are not reading 57 degrees out the exit of the vent the unit is not cooling to capacity. I live in hot, humid Florida, 93 and 80% humidity all summer long and both ACs read 57 degrees as the vents. Water temp is 86...

FYI: I purchased that Webasco unit about 18 months ago. It works, but not the greatest. My 1997 vintage Cruise Air up forward is a much better unit. If I could do it again I would spend more to get a better quality unit. The digital display is junk, the remote stopped working.


Ok, 58 at the vent, 84 water temp, 88.9 in the AM

This message has attachments images.
Please log in or register to see it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1997 3788/Cummins 6BTA 5.9 M2s (Sold)
2003 Silverton 42c/Cummins 480CEs
2014 Sea Fox 22 Center Console
2006 Boston Whaler 13 Sport

Vero Beach, Fl.

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 29 Sep 2017 01:13 #14

  • Cool Beans
  • Cool Beans's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 182
  • Thank you received: 29
Your welcome Dave! I would have had my Webasto installed a couple weeks ago but I'm 2 for 2 in damaged units incoming, trying for a third coming in next week, lol.

What kind of temp gun is that and where did you get it? That things is pretty slick!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

. . .It places the lotion in the Basket. . .and that basket happens to be in a 1987 Bayliner 3870 w/ Hino 175's

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 29 Sep 2017 12:37 #15

  • p91473
  • p91473's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 521
  • Thank you received: 48
Strange, I received a damaged Webasco when I ordered mine 18 months ago. The fan shroud was bent casusing the fan to rub. I ended up taking it apart and fixing it rather then ship it back.

Harbor Freight Tools. $17.00 with coupon....

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1997 3788/Cummins 6BTA 5.9 M2s (Sold)
2003 Silverton 42c/Cummins 480CEs
2014 Sea Fox 22 Center Console
2006 Boston Whaler 13 Sport

Vero Beach, Fl.

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 29 Sep 2017 14:17 #16

  • higgins_jr
  • higgins_jr's Avatar
  • Away
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1427
  • Thank you received: 357
Dave, you asked for reco's. Consider Marinaire units. I'm told they are the quietest around, and I think a bit cheaper too.

Have fun! Cheers

www.marinaire.com/Products-s/12.htm

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

John H
Brisbane QLD Aust
"Harbor-nating"

2000 - 4788/Cummins 370's

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 29 Sep 2017 14:44 #17

  • smitty477
  • smitty477's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 5741
  • Thank you received: 966
Worth while facts on marine AC units....

www.flagshipmarine.com/do%27s-don%27ts.html

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Northport NY

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 02 Oct 2017 05:05 #18

  • davesisk
  • davesisk's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 386
  • Thank you received: 30
OK, main cabin AC is back in commission! It was very low on R-22...we could not find any leak (except the valve on the fitting, it's stuck open...we put the cap back on the fitting and tested it for leaks with some soapy water...no bubbles). A fella from the yacht club with HVAC licensing helped me out...recharged it to the correct pressure, and the in/out temperature difference is around 18 degrees, which is pretty good for a 28 year old marine AC methinks. Now we're back to "frozen snot" status, and I'm hoping it'll stay there for at least a few more years. :P

Dave

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

AC issue on 1989 3818.... 02 Oct 2017 05:08 #19

  • davesisk
  • davesisk's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 386
  • Thank you received: 30

higgins_jr wrote: Dave, you asked for reco's. Consider Marinaire units. I'm told they are the quietest around, and I think a bit cheaper too.

Have fun! Cheers

www.marinaire.com/Products-s/12.htm


Thanks! This looks like a newer version of the 16K unit that is already in there: www.marinaire.com/Marine-air-conditioner...-110V-p/msba16k2.htm

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
Moderators: higgins_jrJim Gandee
Time to create page: 0.130 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum