Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: Closer to buying 38xx...but...

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 23 Aug 2017 16:25 #1

  • Nickp
  • Nickp's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 11
  • Thank you received: 0
I've looked at local area 3870's and 3888's...all seem to be in about the same shape or close enough to ignore some minor differences.

I've developed an opinion that most anything else doesn't really matter (except for the offer) but the Hino engines are a real big issue. The boats I have looked at (and have read listings on others) seem to have the 175HP engines with around 1300-1700 hours. Given their age of 25-30 years old, that doesn't seem like a lot at around 50hrs per season.

My concern is the maintenance items that might hit me big time after purchase...specifically, elbows and manifolds (manicoolers?).

One of the boats the current owner has only had it for a year and does not have any information on what maintenance had been performed on the engines. Another had the elbows boiled a couple of years ago (owner has had the boat 10 years). Another boat was in the family from new purchase passed on from father to son and it seems nothing has been done to manifolds or elbows. And yet another where the original owner (1988, I think) has done nothing to the engines since he bought the boat new...

I've also read some negative press regarding Hino's...parts availability, cheap quality knock-off's, price, underpowered for the boat they're in, too much load for their size, etc...

So, either the engines are indestructible or I'm walking into a disaster after purchase. I saw one price listing where the manifold price is upwards of $8,000 (marinepartssupply.com). I must be walking into a bit of "sticker shock" :)

Since there must be a bunch of you out there with 38xx's and running Hino's, can you give me some advice and comments...? What am I getting myself into in buying a boat with the Hino's...?

Thanks in advance for your responses...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it til it is...

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 23 Aug 2017 18:38 #2

  • gjackson
  • gjackson's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 86
  • Thank you received: 21
Nickp,

You are on the right track. The Hinos are significant area you need to pay attention. I would suggest the tanks are another big item to investigate since at 30+ years old, tank issues are becoming more commonplace. The third big ticket item of course is the hull, deck and radar arch condition. The sum of the three areas can consume large amounts of boat $ and time to repair and they really differentiate the good boats from the bad boats of this vintage. Based upon the experiences of my dock neighbors, these same issues are true on all brands of 30+ year old boats. That is why they are selling at such a discount versus new. ...buyer beware...

If I were looking for a boat.. I would buy one that is as clean well cared for as you can find. A meticulous owner will have maintained things much better than others. First pass...is the boat really clean throughout and free of obvious rust, mold, discoloration, stains, odors, corrosion., scratches, scuffs, ..etc. This is a good indicator of how well the boat was maintained mechanically as well. Also, all the little stuff really adds up and takes away from boating fun time.

With respect to the Hinos...if in doubt due to lack of records or no real history or admitted neglect (done nothing in decades!)..offer a low enough price that you are OK paying for significant engine repairs / upgrades. I did this and then did the upgrades regardless. I wanted nice clean engines with new ss elbows, etc. for peace of mind. In total it cost close to $20k to really clean up the engines (pretty major including new injectors, new elbows, new hoses, 1 new manicooler),. In the end, they look and run like new and parts are all ceramic coated etc. to be even more corrosion resistant than new. The boat runs identical to original factory spec as a result. Other than routine maintenance, they should be good for another 30 years. But it is a big expense if not factored into the purchase price.

I asked for all service docs. Had a mechanical survey done. Then wrote a letter with all known and suspected mechanical issues. I offered a price adjustment according to these factors. The seller, upon reviewing the details...and after consulting with his broker who reminded him that any knowledgeable buyer will factor in the same issues...he agreed to the price reduction.
The following user(s) said Thank You: RDH3818, Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

G W Jackson
'86 Bayliner 3870
NC Coast - Cape Lookout to Cape Fear
Last Edit: by gjackson.

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 23 Aug 2017 18:41 #3

  • Pcpete
  • Pcpete's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 1400
  • Thank you received: 325
I bought my 1988 3818 a year ago with 3400 hours on the engines. The title search for documentation showed the complete ownership history and, it appears that it was in charter service from 88 to 2000 when a couple bought it and the widower sold it in a disused condition in 2015. That buyer brought in Earl, the Baylinerguru, to do what was needed to the engines which wasn't really all that much. The manicoolers and bundles were changed out for a "fresh water" set of used ones, risers were replaced, valves adjusted and timing set. I replaced the belts, changed to the coolant Earl recommended and changed the oil. We've put 100 plus hours on the engines and they run very smoothly at whatever speed we want. So far our average fuel burn per meter hour, running at everything from a dead idle to 16kn @ 2800, is about five gallons an hour including the generator.
As to being scared of parts pricing, again Earl is your go to guy. He has the patterns for the manicoolers and sells them at a more reasonable price. There is a shop in Auburn, WA that media blasts, repairs as required and powder coats the manicoolers for around $550 I think. Seattle Radiator is your go to for bundle maintenance and repair. The engines themselves are industrial diesels that power generators and all sorts of equipment all over the world. They are modular meaning an entire cylinder sleeve, piston and rod are replaced as a unit. The raw water pump impeller cost will get your attention but there is a Jabsco alternative that has a good reputation for about $70 at Fisheries Supply in Seattle.
I suggest at least a virtual engine survey from Earl since you aren't in the Puget Sound region. I'll admit to being nervous about the Hinos and the major cost items, but am much more comfortable now. They transmissions are going to sound like they have rocks in them at idle and that's perfectly normal for Hurth. Brand new ones do it too, even in $100k ski boats. Smitty477 here on the BOC is an excellent resource in your area.
If I can help advise in any way, feel free to PM me and I'd be happy to share.
The following user(s) said Thank You: JC3, Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

P/C Pete
Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
1988 3818 "GLAUBEN"
1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
MMSI 367770440
1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948
Last Edit: by Pcpete.

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 23 Aug 2017 20:25 #4

  • Nickp
  • Nickp's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 11
  • Thank you received: 0
WOW...! ! ! Thank you so much...the help you give in your responses is enough to make one buy a Bayliner just to stay on the forum !

At work now but will respond better later...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it til it is...

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 23 Aug 2017 20:27 #5

  • Nickp
  • Nickp's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 11
  • Thank you received: 0
Thank you gjackson...couldn't ask for better advice...will be back on later...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it til it is...

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 23 Aug 2017 22:31 #6

  • kev_rm
  • kev_rm's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • 1987 3870 Hino 175's
  • Posts: 235
  • Thank you received: 31
Just FWIW, I have put around of $5K worth of maintenance into my 1987 Hinos ~2000hrs in the last 8 months (mainly deferred stuff from PO, belts, hoses, injectors, gaskets, valve adjustments, fluids, pumps, impellers and so forth) and I've not had any trouble locating parts or information on them. Its an industrial Toyota diesel. They are rock solid if maintained well.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 23 Aug 2017 23:29 #7

  • capt. ron
  • capt. ron's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 1337
  • Thank you received: 25
I've had my 1987 38 since early spring of 2010. The Hino's have been as dependable as a heartbeat, I've put near 800 hours on it in that time. With normal maintenance they'll outlast me, oil and filter changes happen between 100 to 120 hours. This is the same schedule for transmission oil and primary fuel filters. I have had the water tank replaced and the radar arch rebuilt, I change antifreeze every 2 years. I also rebuilt the Swimgrid and mounted it higher on the transom. The guest berth and galley windows and all the flocking on solon sliding windows were replaced the 1st year. With almost 2000 hours it's time for injector clean and test and new tips if needed. The westerbeke is being re-ringed now, other than normal wear from living aboard to water pumps, windlass maintenance that is pretty much the extent of repairs. The othe significant item were upgrading electronics - AIS,radar vhf radios and displays at both helms, battery charger and the NorCold fridge. It has been a great boat, fuel burn including generator is running 3.1 gph during my ownership
The following user(s) said Thank You: gjackson, Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Capt. Ron.
"I will not tiptoe through life to arrive safely at death"
"Never Trade Luck For Skill"
1987 3870 - Northern Lights ll
Hino EH700
Westerbeke 8.0
1999 Logic Marine 17' CC/50 Merc.
on Louisiana pool Mississippi River.

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 24 Aug 2017 14:26 #8

  • Nickp
  • Nickp's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 11
  • Thank you received: 0
GJACKSON...
I like your idea of adding up all the cost items and subtracting from offer price. I made that point clear to the broker showing one of the boats and I think he got set back a bit. To your point…any knowledgeable person would do the same…and I am not yet knowledgeable enough to challenge anybody but even I could pick out some items of concern. I am surprised at some of the “un-neatness” and lack of preparation in showing their boats. When I get serious with one of the boats I will get some serious expertise and help identifying problem areas…
Thank you for pointing out additional areas to look at. I would never have thought of checking the radar arch unless there was something glaring. No doubt I’d rather be out on the water than spending time taking care of the ankle biters. I thought I could look past the owner not keeping the inside neat but I later thought better…your point exactly.

PCpete…
Thank you for the recommendation to seek Earl’s guidance…sounds like you’ve had a good experience by putting all your efforts into the pre-purchase items. Exactly what I am doing now. I seriously doubt I will be in a 38xx before the winter (Northeast) but I will be much better prepared by the time one lands on my doorstep. This weekend I am looking at a 38 that has been in fresh water for the past ten years…I’m thinking this has slowed the “aging” process. I am hopeful the owner has cared for her with the same level of detail that I would. He tells me he’s had the risers boiled out and engines are pristine…we’ll see…
Hours on the ones I’ve looked are low compared to yours at time of purchase…I hope their performance and upkeep is in line with that.
Parts pricing is important but I normally shop around for availability and pricing before entering into major purchases. Many years ago I joined a couple of woodworking forums for the same reason I joined BOC…to get as much of a heads up so that I make the right decisions. I’m sure the 38 will be my last boat purchase so I need to make it a learned decision.

Kev_rm…
Thank you for sharing your experiences…helped to ease my anxiety...I’ll admit to a certain amount of “cold-feet” but it’s easing with more research and advice from you guys on BOC…

Capt. Ron…
Thanks for sharing…I’m sure I’ll have some things to take care of to make the boat mine…I did the same type of work when I bought my Ericson 38. Once done, it felt like I had owned it forever…that’s important to me so I’m sure I’ll do the same with the 38…

Thank you all for the advice and your willingness to help. This is truly the place to be. I’m sure I will have good news to report in the next few months. In the meantime I appreciate your help and it will make me a better Bayliner owner.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it til it is...

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 24 Aug 2017 17:36 #9

  • Jim Gandee
  • Jim Gandee's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Retired Fireman, Los Angeles
  • Posts: 1456
  • Thank you received: 177
Nickp,

When you're bored, I suggest you search 38XX and spend a weekend reading. You'll learn everything you ever wanted to know about the 38 and then some.
I have the 175's and they have been solid. I did ceramic coat the manicoolers. Stainless steel exhaust risers see are available at a reasonable cost. The 210 HP engines do give you a little additional speed, are lighter and are a bit easier to access due to their smaller footprint. The trade off is the extra complexity and maintenance of the turbo and after cooler system.
These boats are definately not speed demons so If you want a boat capable of more than 16-17 kts Max, (cruise 6-12 kts. ) you may want to look elsewhere.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Jim Gandee
1989 3888
Hino 175's
Fire Escape
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 25 Aug 2017 01:53 #10

  • kwb
  • kwb's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 1451
  • Thank you received: 87

Jim Gandee wrote: Nickp,

When you're bored, I suggest you search 38XX and spend a weekend reading. You'll learn everything you ever wanted to know about the 38 and then some.
I have the 175's and they have been solid. I did ceramic coat the manicoolers. Stainless steel exhaust risers see are available at a reasonable cost. The 210 HP engines do give you a little additional speed, are lighter and are a bit easier to access due to their smaller footprint. The trade off is the extra complexity and maintenance of the turbo and after cooler system.
These boats are definately not speed demons so If you want a boat capable of more than 16-17 kts Max, (cruise 6-12 kts. ) you may want to look elsewhere.


I have no problem cruising mine at 15kn (so long as I don't have the 16' CC on a string behind me)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1989 3888
Nobody gets out alive.

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 25 Aug 2017 15:24 #11

  • Nickp
  • Nickp's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 11
  • Thank you received: 0
Jim...you're absolutely right about searching 38xx...there's a treasure here. Did some lurking before joining BOC but this is much better. BOC is definitely the reason for my education and what questions to ask the owners/brokers. My preference would be not to deal with turbo's...I'd rather do some of the work myself.

Thanks for pointing that out...I'm not at all a speed demon...my whole life on the water has been on sailboats. I don't even hate road traffic :lol: I had spent some time looking at trawlers and then decided it made no sense to go from one 7 1/2 knot boat into another. Then I looked at swift trawlers but didn't like the layout. Targeting the 38xx as my next boat came from a combination of the layout, creature comforts, cruising speed right where I wanted and a member of a former club I belonged to has one and I always admired it. I drove and docked that 38 regularly and am comfortable with how it reacts backing into a slip. My current slip is 60 ft opposite the next dock (nose to nose) and am comfortable with the distance based on 38's maneuverability. Right now I'm backing my 38 sailboat in with single screw, prop walk and, of course, "point and hope" maneuvers. It's a scream when wind, current and prop walk gang up on me. :ohmy: especially when dock-mates pull on the lifelines. (They haven't quite grasped the concept that sailboats have curved hulls...teehee...) Anxious to get away from all that... :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it til it is...

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 26 Aug 2017 05:35 #12

  • canoel
  • canoel's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 2712
  • Thank you received: 669
We love our 175 Hinos as well.
Ours have close to 3000 hours, no issues. We run light and have extended trim tabs, and can easily cruise at 16 knots, and top out at 18.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Joel
1987 3818 Hino 175
"Knotty Girl"
Prince Rupert B.C.

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 26 Aug 2017 22:40 #13

  • jmcannonball
  • jmcannonball's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 958
  • Thank you received: 61
I've had my 3888 since 2002 and have loved it every minute. Cruised the Inside Passage from Seattle to Juneau/ Hoonah/Sitka in 2003 without a hitch! In 15 years, other than normal maintenance, the only major work I have done is replace the risers with stainless steel, replace the tips on the injectors, and replace the fuel tanks. Great boat for the buck!
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Two C's 1990 3888 MY, 175 Hinos, Hurth 630 Trannys[/B]
Past Commodore Emerald Rose Yacht Club
Member International Order of the Blue Gavel
MMSI: 338030604

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 28 Aug 2017 16:07 #14

  • davesisk
  • davesisk's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 386
  • Thank you received: 30
I just bought my 1989 3818 (175hp Hino EH-700's with 2600 hours) a little over a year ago. We've traveled two long trips (one bringing it about 200 miles up the east coast to home port immediately after purchase, and a vacation this year that was a 200 mile trip north on the ICW for a week, plus quite a few weekend trips 15 miles away to various areas near us), and haven't had any significant problems. Any issues I've had so far have turned out to be something simple (like a coolant hose leaking, a loose cap on one of the transmissions leaking, etc.) I've replaced the stock cast iron exhaust risers with stainless steel exhaust risers from Greenwater Marine (about $1200/each plus around 16 hours of install time...the stern lost around 100lbs going from the cast iron risers to the stainless risers). I've replaced all the seawater hoses and belts, and engine coolant hoses are next on the list. The seawater pump impellers are a real pain to replace (engine mounts in the way), but still do-able. Smitty will surely pop up and tell you that these large Hino's are setup to only extract about 30hp/liter, which is a pretty low horsepower per liter number, and if maintained at least reasonably well will probably outlive all of us. The only crazy expensive part (vs any other similar boat) are the manicoolers, which at best are around $5000 or so each. Local diesel mechanics won't have Hino parts in stock (like they would Cummins, Yanmar, Volvo Penta or other more widespread marine diesels), so assume parts will have to be ordered. However, Bayliner made around 2000 of these boats, most of them with Hino EH-700's, so although parts might not be available in the local store, I kinda doubt that you won't be able to find most parts somewhere via mail or web order.

I've also replaced the GPS chartplotter, Radar, and Sonar on mine, plus some flooring, downstairs stereo, added an upstairs stereo, and quite a few other things that are (for the most part) fairly minor/mostly cosmetic stuff. If you've had an older sailboat (I did too), then you're probably used to fixing various stuff as it breaks. When I was replacing the radar, I noticed that the radar arch itself has some spots with rotten wood that I'll have to address sometime in the future, and the vinyl/thin plywood cover for the inside of the radar arch is mostly water-logged. (There's another 100 lbs up high that I can probably get rid of...20 - 30 square feet of waterlogged plywood and vinyl...I'll replace the inside cover with some lightweight waterproof plastic material) Eventually, I might replace the radar arch with an aluminum one (depending on how much rotten wood there actually is...I haven't actually found that much yet)...lighter weight and should never have to touch it again.

My significant other and I LOVE this boat. To be 28 years old, it has held up very well, and still runs within 90% or better of it's spec'd performance. (By comparison, most 28 year old cars would already be junk by now...quite a few 28 year old boats are also junk by now). It's comfortable, very well laid-out and roomy, it's been quite reliable, and it was a reasonable price. It's not all that fast (mine's loaded pretty heavily, so I usually run 8-14 knots or something like that...she will run up to 18 knots at wide open throttle/clean bottom/trim tabs ~90% down/etc briefly). Smitty will surely tell you to make sure the engines can throttle-up to 3050 - 3100 rpm's (tachometer accuracy verified) without overheating or blowing clouds of smoke during a sea-trial. I looked at 3 before I bought this one...the first one was in shambles (flybridge so rotten you couldn't stand on one side without risk of it falling through, oil dripping from the filters of both engines, coolant spewing from hoses, rainwater pouring in like a faucet from one corner of the windshield above the galley, no maintenance for 5 years, generator seized, etc...pretty rough shape) and it still ran 18 knots in 2-3 foot seas without anything blowing up, once the bottom was cleaned (although it was very lightly loaded). Any boat that is 20-30 years old is going to take some maintenance...so far, I've been pretty pleased with what I've had to do though.

HTH and welcome!
Dave
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last Edit: by davesisk.

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 28 Aug 2017 21:33 #15

  • Snika
  • Snika's Avatar
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 25
  • Thank you received: 2
You've certainly come to the right place. The collective wisdom, knowledge and willingness to help exhibited by this group is remarkable and, as suggested, scouring the contents of the Forum for answers is well worth the effort.

I am a relatively new owner of a 1986 3870 with 2,100 hours and was also shocked by how little effort was put into presenting the available boats at that time, whether by the broker or the owner. It was rare to come across one that didn't look 3 months away from being a derelict. I was fortunate enough to find mine in the Vancouver BC area, nicely protected in a boat house with decent, although sporadic, maintenance documentation. The vessel and mechanical survey is critical, especially by someone who has some experience with Bayliners and Hinos. I had both surveys done at the same time, by two different groups, which made for a bit of a tornado of activity but it did help me to better understand what I was getting into.

As has been stated repeatedly, the 175 naturally aspirated Hinos are bullet proof as long as you perform regular maintenance and address the items that keep being mentioned (manicoolers, exhaust risers, etc.). Before we started really using it, even though the survey indicated sound equipment, we had the injectors serviced with them sent out for repair/replacement to a diesel shop that specialized, added dripless shaft seals and fully serviced (oil, filters, impellers, etc.) both mains, genset and transmissions. I still need to evaluate the risers, manicoolers and take appropriate action - sooner than later. The engines start easily, run smoothly and we travel all day at 8-10 knots at about 1,750 rpm, just sipping fuel. We like the slow lane as well.

However, some of my attention had to be diverted to non-mechanical aspects of boat ownership since this vessel is 30 years old and much of the equipment and appliances were original. The microwave was first and we are now working on replacing the refer. The waste system needed some serious attention and, while manageable now, is headed for a bigger project this winter. The light fixtures needed to be upgraded or at least the bulbs replaced with LED alternates (no heat, cheap to operate, etc.) so we could see and much of the navigational and safety equipment has been replaced or is in line for replacement.

That being said, we love this boat and spend time on it whenever we can, even if it's to work on a project and spend the night in the slip. I highly recommend a covered slip. This boat spent the last half of its years under cover and the gelcoat, canvas and general condition show that.

Best wishes with your decision making process. Pound for pound, these boats are everything an active cruiser needs without being mired in debt - they look great as well with that long sloping bow.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

David and Beth
Seattle Area - Berthed in La Conner

1986 Bayliner 3870 "Hokey Pokey"

1995 SeaRay 20 Signature "Flapdoodle"
1993 Bayliner 3058 "SeaYa"

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 28 Aug 2017 23:26 #16

  • Johnny Vintage
  • Johnny Vintage's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 1740
  • Thank you received: 104
We've had our 1986 3870 for 10 years now. The Hinos have around 2300 hours. I did do the SS risers but our manicoolers still look good.
Back end of the gunny blew and that was $6,500.00 last year.

I do all of the regular maintenance myself but probably time to have a diesel mechanic down for injector service etc.

We just got back from 6 weeks in the Gulf Islands. The old gal ran smooth. It still blows my mind how little fuel these boats use.

We still love ours and it will be our last boat and we will be very, very sad to see it go when the time comes.

If you find a good one, and it took us some time to find ours, go for it and you will love it!!

Just take a teak refinishing course. That will come in handy.

JV EASY RIDER
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 29 Aug 2017 01:43 #17

  • fighterpilot
  • fighterpilot's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 194
  • Thank you received: 1
Nickp in your quest for the 38xx did you ever consider the hull construction as a possible problem?? It is my understanding the 3870 and the 3888 are a cored hull. In some other named boats this has been a problem, but don't know about the Bayliners. ???
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 29 Aug 2017 02:00 #18

  • Pcpete
  • Pcpete's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 1400
  • Thank you received: 325
This is beginning to look like analysis paralysis.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

P/C Pete
Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
1988 3818 "GLAUBEN"
1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
MMSI 367770440
1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 29 Aug 2017 03:52 #19

  • GearGuts
  • GearGuts's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 274
  • Thank you received: 55
Not the cored hull thing again !? Sorry dude no part of the bayliner 38xx hull is cored. The hull is very solid and layed up with vinylester resin which is superior to the regular polyester resin that most boats are made with.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1990 3888 Bayliner, Twin 351's

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 29 Aug 2017 04:47 #20

  • boatbum
  • boatbum's Avatar
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 59
  • Thank you received: 9
Mine is a 1991 3888, and the hull is definitely solid glass as per the photo

This message has an attachment image.
Please log in or register to see it.

The following user(s) said Thank You: Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 29 Aug 2017 12:41 #21

  • Cool Beans
  • Cool Beans's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 179
  • Thank you received: 28

Pcpete wrote: This is beginning to look like analysis paralysis.


Hey! This was me back in the spring ;)

NickP, you can do a username search for "cool beans" and read thru my paranoid posts about vague and unknowable 'what-ifs' :whistle:

In the end though, I bought my boat. I %&^*$#^ LOVE my boat :lol: It has some issues, there were compromises, it needs some fixes and updates, there is PO neglect and deferred maintenance I'm still catching up on...there are unknowns...it's a 30 year old boat though, find me one that doesn't have any of that lol!

In the off chance something major happens to an engine or some other major component, it could cost you more. But compare equally vintage boats, and you might find that those engines are obsolete and have expensive parts as well. I read (and did this myself) about comparing the Hino to a Cummins concerning parts availability, but I don't think the 6BTA existed in any boats 30 years ago so it's a bad comparison. You have old CAT motors ($$$), tuboed Lehmans ($$$$), Perkins (3 in 1 manicooler $$$$$), and Volvos ($$first born$$) from my own searching...at least as far as the aft cockpit motorcruisers were powered.

Your thinking of buying a real Yacht, you're not going to get out of this cheap...no matter how you slice it :evil:
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

. . .It places the lotion in the Basket. . .and that basket happens to be in a 1987 Bayliner 3870 w/ Hino 175's

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 29 Aug 2017 22:47 #22

  • DryMartini
  • DryMartini's Avatar
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 49
  • Thank you received: 2
NickP - I bought a 1991 3888 in 1999 and still run it today. It is one of the best design boats of its size; love it. We have take numerous 300 mile trips with another couple with no issue of feeling crowded. Before buying I looked at several boats on the great lakes (I boat on the MIssissippi river). The key issue to me on determining how well boats were maintained was to look at the brightwork and the cleanliness of the bilge. If these were well maintained, it is highly probable that the rest of the boat was also; however, do not buy a boat without both hull and mechanical surveys and a sea trial, then negotiate your offer based on the results. I selected the 210 hp engines because access is much improved over the 175. The turbos are not a problem as long as you run them above 1500 rpm for at least 5 minutes once every week or two. I have not had any mechanical problems at all. Earl was out once and went through the engines. He had the injectors cleaned and replaced as need. The only major repairs were replacing the toilets. Remember that proper maintenance is the key to happy boating.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 30 Aug 2017 02:28 #23

  • davesisk
  • davesisk's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 386
  • Thank you received: 30

fighterpilot wrote: Nickp in your quest for the 38xx did you ever consider the hull construction as a possible problem?? It is my understanding the 3870 and the 3888 are a cored hull. In some other named boats this has been a problem, but don't know about the Bayliners. ???


The decks are cored (on the bow, on the flybridge, etc.)...the hull (aka the bottom-side) is not cored, it's solid FRP (fiberglass-reinforced plastic) and has a vinylester coating. I installed an EchoPilot Forward-Looking Sonar in mine, which required a large thru-hull fitting, which required a 2.5" hole to be cut in the hull in the bottom of the engine room. It's solid fiberglass, no wood core.

I looked at 4 of these boats before buying the one I have...even the one that had been sitting in the water neglected for 5-6 years collecting barnacles and oysters had no hull problems, and cleaned up to look almost new. Putting wood sandwiched between fiberglass under water is a really bad idea, and Bayliner didn't do it with these boats. You DO still need a haul-out and a surveyor to sound the hulls (just to be 100% sure...it's certainly possible for someone to run it up on rocks at 18 knots and do some damage)...but he's more likely to find some soft spots in the flybridge deck or the bow deck, and very unlikely to find any issues in the hull.

You're probably not going to find a 20-30 year old boat that looks just like a new one. If that's what you need, then you'll have to buy a new one. However, if you get one that has 1) topsides and hull all solid, and 2) engines in healthy running shape, then you'll have to fix some mostly minor stuff and keep up with the maintenance, just like you would with any boat that is 20-30 years old. The difference here is that you'll have a great interior layout, bulletproof engines IF they have been maintained and you continue to do the basic maintenance, and a 40-ish foot boat with two staterooms/two heads/etc that doesn't drink a ridiculous amount of fuel. Some of them are neglected and will be fixer-uppers (but engines and hulls probably still OK after a little work)...some of them have been well-maintained and need very little work to start actually using and enjoying them.

The 38xx's really are a great value, even at 20-30 years old...there's a reason Bayliner made 2000 of them (because people bought 2000 of them!)...and people are still buying them, as you can see from folks on this forum. In my case, ours does double-duty as the "floating beach condo" and as a cruising yacht...I could not have bought a waterfront beach condo the same size at anywhere near the same price, and even if I had I couldn't have taken it with me on trips. :P To me, that was an irresistible value proposition.

You can't get any more "waterfront" than on a boat. B)

HTH!
Dave
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nickp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last Edit: by davesisk.

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 14 Sep 2017 16:21 #24

  • Nickp
  • Nickp's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 11
  • Thank you received: 0

Pcpete wrote: This is beginning to look like analysis paralysis.


Far from it, Pete...but thank you for helping to make sure that it doesn't turn out to be that.

There is no doubt in my mind that I will have a 38 for the following season. Of the ones that are available close enough that I will venture the trip, it is an issue of WHICH one. I hope to do this by considering all the "gotchas" for each of the boats and then picking the one that presents the best compromise to me. Of course, I will also add my list of updates in case I run into any of them already installed (BTW, thank you for your note describing your updates...I've added them to my list to consider).

The season is pretty much over (Northeast) but I plan to continue to my search and get a better look at the underneath. The off-season also gives me more time to visit boats further away. I have no reservations getting into a boat and taking it North from as far as Florida, Mississippi, even Texas. I will be retired in less than a year and looking forward to a long trip. The last reason I'm buying a 38 is to sit at the dock and hang out with the other dock potatoes.

Thanks to you and the others on BOC it will make my job easier and picking the right one of the bunch with more confidence.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it til it is...
Last Edit: by Nickp.

Closer to buying 38xx...but... 14 Sep 2017 16:35 #25

  • Nickp
  • Nickp's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 11
  • Thank you received: 0
You guys have been a tremendous help...your personal experiences, recommendations, referrals to other posts, etc...

I'll be in a 38 in no time and then have stories of my own...who knows...maybe even help a future 38 owner...

In the next week or so I will be visiting a 38 repowered with 200hp Yanmars. Go figga...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it til it is...
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Moderators: higgins_jrJim Gandee
Time to create page: 0.208 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum