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TOPIC: Charging on the hook

Charging on the hook 01 Aug 2017 13:45 #1

  • Johnny Vintage
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Do you run the gunny a few hours a day to charge the house batteries or wait til they are down to 50%?

We have been sitting in Montague for a week now.

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Charging on the hook 01 Aug 2017 15:17 #2

  • Alan Teed
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I like to charge at 65% which was the recommendation of a battery tech for my AGM lifeline batteries.

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Alan Teed
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'94 4788
Gig Harbor, WA
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Experience: Sail 50 years, Motor 15 years. 2 Transats, 1 Baltimore-Virgin Islands, 6 Months cruising Caribbean, 3-5 years cruising Med.

Charging on the hook 01 Aug 2017 16:32 #3

  • mmichellich
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Depends on how you are determining 50%. It can be done with a volt meter but you really need to know what you are doing.
State of Charge
Lead Acid Gel batter AGM battery
100% 12.70+ 12.85+ 12.80+
75% 12.40 12.65 12.60
50% 12.20 12.35 12.30
25% 12.00 12.00 12.00
0% 11.80 11.80 11.80
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Charging on the hook 01 Aug 2017 16:33 #4

  • Uncle Bob
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Your flooded batteries will last longer recharging at 65% than 50%, but your most efficient charging is bulk charging which is 50-85%. After that you are on absorb charge and burning the same diesel for less charge.

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1989 26' then 1994 32' now 2001 39'

Charging on the hook 01 Aug 2017 17:43 #5

  • simbad
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So how and where do you assess state of current charge? I have an inverter panel and a voltage meter on the electrical panel.
I presume it's the inverter panel and hit 'meter' it's a Magnum inverter

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Charging on the hook 01 Aug 2017 18:12 #6

  • Uncle Bob
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The Magnum can be set to percentage of state of charge. But it has to be set properly to reflect your battery bank capacity. It's all in the manual.

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1989 26' then 1994 32' now 2001 39'
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Charging on the hook 01 Aug 2017 21:05 #7

  • TenMile
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I have 4 x 100w solar panels, a 30A MPPT charge controller, an ACR, a Xantrex Linklite battery monitor, 4 deep cycle golf cart batteries and 2 start batteries. The ACR ensures all 6 batteries charge during sunny days. It's unusual to see my house system fall below 70% and can usually reach 100% by early afternoon. I don't own a generator and never will.

I can go multiple weeks on the hook without any requirement to recharge my batteries. For about 9 months of the year I can also avoid needing to plug my boat into shore power while moored at my marina (until I need to run a space heater). Saves me about $180/yr in electricity costs, keeps batteries charged to 100%. Once installed it is virtually maintenance free (cleaning bird poop and watering batteries excepted).

I added the panels, charge controller and ACR to the boat after purchase. The Xantrex and batteries were already there.
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Charging on the hook 02 Aug 2017 03:29 #8

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How do you get hot water?

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1989 26' then 1994 32' now 2001 39'

Charging on the hook 02 Aug 2017 04:46 #9

  • redskyjoe
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On the hook now. I've been charging twice a day for 2 to 3 hrs each time. This is all new to me. I've been trying to not go below 80% soc and it still takes min 2 to 3 hrs and sometimes I still don't get to 100% soc. trying to figure this all out but considering adding solar panels too to eliminate one of the generator cycles per day. Not looking forward to yacht club raft up with noisy genny ruining solitude for everyone else twice daily.

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Charging on the hook 02 Aug 2017 05:28 #10

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Uncle Bob wrote: How do you get hot water?


Propane on demand heater.

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Terry
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Charging on the hook 02 Aug 2017 05:28 #11

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Redskyjoe: You're charging on absorb charge then float charge. Very inefficient. Ensure your charger settings match the battery bank and forget about reaching 100 %. As I mentioned above, your most efficient charging is between 50 and 85%. But, the settings have to be correct. Your numbers suggest your settings are incorrect.

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1989 26' then 1994 32' now 2001 39'
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Charging on the hook 02 Aug 2017 15:58 #12

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Uncle Bob wrote: Redskyjoe: You're charging on absorb charge then float charge. Very inefficient. Ensure your charger settings match the battery bank and forget about reaching 100 %. As I mentioned above, your most efficient charging is between 50 and 85%. But, the settings have to be correct. Your numbers suggest your settings are incorrect.


I was under the impression that flooded lead-acid batteries should not be discharged below 80% if you want to keep maximum life cycles. So I have been trying to charge before it gets below 80% which happens twice per day. Obviously I need to do some more research on this. I appreciate your input.

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Charging on the hook 02 Aug 2017 16:27 #13

  • Machog
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Our 4087 has no genset, so we use a Honda 2000. We were at Montague for 3 days on the hook and we run 30 min for hot water. Then another 1:30min once a day for inverter (4 x 6volt) and house 12volt AGM).

This brings my Inverter up to 13.x volts and my house to 100%. I never let inverter go below 12.00v, or house battery below about 60%. I can charge inverter and house together, but can't do water at same time, Honda just won't take it.

As an aside, I always have engines running when I use dinghy davit or windlass of course. My inverter batteries are 2011 and the AGM is 9+. To speed water heating I have run the starboard engine for 15 min, then the Honda for about 5 min.

Mm, thank you for the chart I've done a copy and paste into my notes!

Machog

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Charging on the hook 02 Aug 2017 17:22 #14

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Machog wrote: Our 4087 has no genset, so we use a Honda 2000. We were at Montague for 3 days on the hook and we run 30 min for hot water. Then another 1:30min once a day for inverter (4 x 6volt) and house 12volt AGM).

This brings my Inverter up to 13.x volts and my house to 100%. I never let inverter go below 12.00v, or house battery below about 60%. I can charge inverter and house together, but can't do water at same time, Honda just won't take it.

As an aside, I always have engines running when I use dinghy davit or windlass of course. My inverter batteries are 2011 and the AGM is 9+. To speed water heating I have run the starboard engine for 15 min, then the Honda for about 5 min.

Mm, thank you for the chart I've done a copy and paste into my notes!

Machog

What times during the day did you run your Honda? And where did you place it while running, do you have pics? I'm about to take off on a cruise and am thinking about bringing my Honda 2000 for the same reason, I have 6 house batteries and no generator.

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Charging on the hook 02 Aug 2017 17:22 #15

  • TenMile
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Uncle Bob wrote: Redskyjoe: You're charging on absorb charge then float charge. Very inefficient. Ensure your charger settings match the battery bank and forget about reaching 100 %. As I mentioned above, your most efficient charging is between 50 and 85%. But, the settings have to be correct. Your numbers suggest your settings are incorrect.


Something to note. If you're only charging your batteries up to 85% you are in fact losing 30% of your available power. Given that you want to keep the batteries above 50% discharged you're only using the capacity between 50 and 100%. So that capacity between 85% and 100% represents 30% of the available power not 15%.

To get that last 15% into your batteries more quickly, you have to raise the charging voltage. A good charger will allow you to set your charging voltage to 14.8 - 15V. Most 6v deep cycle batteries require much higher voltage to reach 100% charge. Trojan recommends 14.8V on their 6V batteries. It's like blowing up a tire to 35 PSI. You can probably do it with a bicycle pump but it would take you days, but if you do it with a compressor capable of exceeding 35PSI, you can do it much more quickly.
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Charging on the hook 02 Aug 2017 17:57 #16

  • Uncle Bob
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The recommendation to raise the charge voltage goes against the principles of a three stage charger and modern inverter/chargers. I'm not sure a forum will provide the professional info that one might get from a dedicated book from an expert.

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Charging on the hook 02 Aug 2017 18:41 #17

  • kwb
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Raising the bulk charge voltage is hard on the batteries and you will need to water them more often but it is also effective in reducing the genset run time.

I tend to abuse the battery bank doing so but it let's us have a bit more quiet.

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Charging on the hook 02 Aug 2017 20:24 #18

  • TenMile
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Here is the specific guidelines from Trojan on the subject: www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/battery-maintenance/

Note that voltage of 14.8V is absolutely NOT harmful to the batteries and is the recommended voltage from the battery manufacturer. They recommend using a charger with temperature compensation. It ensures they are fully charged and it prolongs their life. We've been using this profile to charge our batteries at our off-grid property for 7 years with a set of 4 Trojans and they are still going strong. Continuing to undercharge your batteries will shorten their life.

From their website (sorry for the table formatting).

Charging batteries properly requires administering the right amount of current at the right voltage. Most charging equipment automatically regulates these values. Some chargers allow the user to set these values. Both automatic and manual equipment can present difficulties in charging. Tables 2 & 3 list most of the necessary voltage settings one might need to program a charger. In either case the original instructions for your charging equipment should also be referenced for proper charging. Here is list of helpful items to remember when charging.

Become familiar with and follow the instructions issued by the charger manufacturer.
Batteries should be charged after each period of use.
Lead acid batteries do not develop a memory and do need not be fully discharged before recharging.
Charge only in well-ventilated areas. Keep sparks or flames away from a charging battery.
Verify charger voltage settings are correct (Table 2).
Correct the charging voltage to compensate for temperatures above and below 80° F (26.6°C). (Add .028 volt per cell for every 10° below 80° F (26.6°C) and subtract 0.028 volt per cell for every 10° F (12.2°C) above 80° F (26.6° C))
Check water level (see the Watering section).
Tighten all vent caps before charging.
Prevent overcharging the batteries. Overcharging causes excessive gassing (water breakdown), heat buildup, and battery aging.
Prevent undercharging the batteries. Undercharging causes stratification which can lead to premature battery failure.
Do not charge a frozen battery.
Avoid charging at temperatures above 120° F (48.8° C).
Table 2
Charger Voltage Settings for Flooded Batteries System Voltage
Charger Voltage Setting 6v 12v 24v 36v 48v
Bulk Charge 7.4 14.8 29.6 44.5 59.3
Float Charge 6.7 13.5 27 40.5 54
Equalize Charge 8.1 16.2 32.4 48.6 64.8
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Charging on the hook 03 Aug 2017 02:34 #19

  • kwb
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I don't disagree with the numbers posted but you will be adding water more frequently at those voltage.

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1989 3888
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