Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC: New gfi's at marinas! Help!

New gfi's at marinas! Help! 29 Jul 2017 02:37 #1

  • Pcpete
  • Pcpete's Avatar Topic Author
  • Away
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 1429
  • Thank you received: 332
Now that marinas are installing the new 30 miliamp GFI breakers, I'm having a problem connecting to shore power. The attitude of a couple of marinas is that I'm some sort of a scofflaw and should fix my boat. I finally found somebody to explain why I suddenly can't plug in. There was a change in the code that toook the allowable miliamp crossover, aka ground fault, from 100 ma to 30 ma.
So, with that bit of knowledge, I now at least understand why I blow the new fancy breaker as soon as I turn the shore power on, just not why. Maybe more like where do I start searching. I shut down all of the downstream of the main shore/off/ship switch and then turn the switch on and most of the time it holds until I turn on either of the two master breakers.
If this were in an outlet circuit, that at least cuts it to one area, but I'm at a loss at where to start looking. Have any of you run into some usual suspects?
I'm going to build a short cord with one of those 30 ma breakers that I can fit in line so I don't have to go to a marina with the new setup and run back and forth while I try things out.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

P/C Pete
Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
1988 3818 "GLAUBEN"
1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
MMSI 367770440
1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948

New gfi's at marinas! Help! 29 Jul 2017 02:44 #2

  • Norton Rider
  • Norton Rider's Avatar
  • Away
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 3272
  • Thank you received: 622
Do you know what code they are referring to? I just looked at the current national code and power outlets for boats do not get GFIs. The code does require GFIs for any utility outlets on a dock, but not for outlets that boats connect to.

Incidentally, I just did some more searching online. It appears that the reasons for not having GFIs on shore power connections are that a boat's outlets should be protected by GFIs already, and that boats cause too much nuisance tripping of GFIs on a dock. One article mentioned that Galvanic Isolators with a monitor can cause GFI tripping.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
Anacortes, WA
Last Edit: by Norton Rider.

New gfi's at marinas! Help! 29 Jul 2017 03:28 #3

  • Pcpete
  • Pcpete's Avatar Topic Author
  • Away
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 1429
  • Thank you received: 332
Yeah ABY or something like that. Whatever codes they wire boats to. The first time we ran into it was on J dock at Roche Harbor a couple of weeks ago. Now it was the same thing at Poulsbo. They were telling me that all marinas are implementing this 30ma code. At Roche there was a 45 and another 38 that couldn't plug in on J dock either. The "host" here at Poulsbo was very helpful in explaining the why and how he had one circuit with a bad gfi, but the three of us at Roche couldn't even turn the shore power selector.
I tried disconnecting the zinc protection, then the green wires coming in to the panel from the plugs. It still trips the dock breaker.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

P/C Pete
Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
1988 3818 "GLAUBEN"
1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
MMSI 367770440
1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948
Last Edit: by Pcpete.

New gfi's at marinas! Help! 29 Jul 2017 03:32 #4

  • igiftmon
  • igiftmon's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 295
  • Thank you received: 61
I've been struggling with the same issue at the Gig harbor public dock with Omega. It's been pretty frustrating the past several months as no one had really been experiencing the issue. Or At least many thought.

I noticed the last time I was at gig, the power outlets had a plaque that gave a sequence for hooking up and powering up the boat after you hook it up... it tried it and it didn't help. I helped a friend it's a 2007 391 and had a similar issue with the L1 leg , but had no issue with the L2 leg of the boat's system. Somehow the L1 had a different draw than the L2 . Weird.

Anyhow,, I am doing the same thing Pete is doing as I figured the only way to get this figured out is to use a GFI and start with a clean slate at the beginning of the run, disconnecting/measuring major components from the start of each leg separately. I guessing the issue is a how my inverter is integrated in the overall system. I'm fearing the solution will be a new inverter set up, or if I want to be sure to get around it all , I could simply install a 50amp isolation transformer. Either solution is not really that cheap....

I am eager to compare notes as the community steps through this issue. Im a bit frustrated with those making the codes.

Hey! maybe if the state wants to make a code that forces boats that have never had issues to spend a small fortune trouble shooting and updating electronics to meet a more stringent safety requirements, maybe they can give us all a dollar for dollar rebate on our taxes for our headache.. sorry for the rant...

This electrical issue is not a simple solution and might not be until a data base of owners are kept with the various methods used to solve the issue...


BJ
OMEGA
5788

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New gfi's at marinas! Help! 29 Jul 2017 03:34 #5

  • igiftmon
  • igiftmon's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 295
  • Thank you received: 61

Pcpete wrote: Yeah ABY or something like that. Whatever codes they wire boats to. The first time we ran into it was on J dock at Roche Harbor a couple of weeks ago. Now it was the same thing at Poulsbo. They were telling me that all marinas are implementing this 30ma code. At Roche there was a 45 and another 38 that couldn't plug in on J dock either. The "host" here at Poulsbo was very helpful in explaining the why and how he had one circuit with a bad gfi, but the three of us at Roche couldn't even turn the shore power selector.
I tried disconnecting the zinc protection, then the green wires coming in to the panel from the plugs. It still trips the dock breaker.


An isolation transformer is sounding better and better..

~BJ

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New gfi's at marinas! Help! 29 Jul 2017 03:39 #6

  • SKUA 28 Contessa
  • SKUA 28 Contessa's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • In over my head... for sure.
  • Posts: 629
  • Thank you received: 74
As I understand the ABYC standards the ELCI should be on the boat not the dock. But that is for boat built since 2011. Maybe it's a local thing?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1986 Bayliner Contessa 2850
On the hard undergoing, a full on refit and repower, with Chevrolet 454
Making real progress now
baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/forum/g...to-leak?limitstart=0

New gfi's at marinas! Help! 29 Jul 2017 04:00 #7

  • igiftmon
  • igiftmon's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 295
  • Thank you received: 61
Does anyone know how it will effect the 50amp hook ups?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New gfi's at marinas! Help! 29 Jul 2017 04:24 #8

  • Pcpete
  • Pcpete's Avatar Topic Author
  • Away
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 1429
  • Thank you received: 332
On J dock at Roche Harbor they only have 50 amp and some other kind of plug that's huge. I mean the cord must be 3" in diameter. I'm glad I don't have that or to pay for the mobile crane to lift it into position. Translation: Yes.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

P/C Pete
Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
1988 3818 "GLAUBEN"
1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
MMSI 367770440
1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948

New gfi's at marinas! Help! 29 Jul 2017 05:35 #9

  • stargazerwa
  • stargazerwa's Avatar
  • Away
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 377
  • Thank you received: 28
I had the same problem at Gig Harbor's public dock this spring. The 4788 hooks up the 30 amp on line and parallels to lines 2 and 3. After much frustration I found that if I didn't parallel line 2 I could make lines 1&2 work. What a pain, I was worried that I would have a problem at the new Rosario docks, but it worked fine. Will be at Roche in a few weeks, hope it works.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Partner in a 1999 4788

Seattle, WA

New gfi's at marinas! Help! 29 Jul 2017 06:04 #10

  • Pcpete
  • Pcpete's Avatar Topic Author
  • Away
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 1429
  • Thank you received: 332
Just say no to J dock. We were there, or the boat was, several time this month. First the Admiral and I a couple of three times then some of my kids. Yeah, kids....alll in their thirties......

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

P/C Pete
Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
1988 3818 "GLAUBEN"
1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
MMSI 367770440
1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948

New gfi's at marinas! Help! 29 Jul 2017 11:03 #11

  • ckrahn
  • ckrahn's Avatar
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 51
  • Thank you received: 2
Other forums say it is your inverter that is causing the problem.

Craig
Rahn de Vous
1999 - 4788

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
Moderators: higgins_jrJim Gandee
Time to create page: 0.141 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum