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TOPIC: Boat fire

47 Fire 11 May 2017 18:06 #51

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47 Fire 11 May 2017 19:49 #52

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Glad everyone is OK, must have been a rather terrible and scary experience. Have experienced a Runnaway diesel one time, but it was a small Yanmar due to slight overfill of oil. Absolutely nothing to be done, rpm's went sky high, no way to shut it down. Only when excess oil was burnt away, possible to control the engine. It did not brake down or catch fire, guess was very lucky. Another possible cause of fire in diesel engines is diesel mist due to leak in high pressure pipes to the injectors.

Have been thinking about installing a simple cctv camera and a few engine room temperature monitors in my 2556. They will not stop the fire but maybe give little more time to react in case something unusual going on down there...

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Boat fire 11 May 2017 20:13 #53

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davesisk wrote: Yes, we should be discussing this amongst ourselves.

Thinking out loud...if an engine fire is going to start, it's going to start when you're running in all likelihood. And you'll most likely be on the flybridge of most of these type boats when running (except for ones like the 4588/4788, where you might be in the pilothouse). As an owner of a 38xx (I'm pretty sure mine has an old halon system but no engine shutoff...I'll check this weekend though...I looked at several of these boats last year and I can't remember), I'm trying to think how I'd get off the flybridge without going down the stairs over the engine room if it were ablaze. Climb down the front of the flybridge helm, I suppose? I have a kayak on the bow, which could hold up to three of us. Life jackets upstairs on the flybridge...seems like a good place for those. I was thinking of picking up a hard dinghy and storing it on the swim platform. But maybe a lightweight inflatable stored on the bow is a safer idea?

I wonder how many cubic feet the engine room is on the 38xx's?

Dave



Definitely THIS. And in my case, sometimes my wife & kids are down below, with me up top alone.... kids get cold, or sick of the wind etc. I guess for them, they can escape out the front hatch, and I could climb over and slide down the front windshield... but then what? Our dinghy is on the swim platform! And, I have to admit, I am sometimes guilty of not even wearing my PFD.... admit it, are we all 100% compliant in this regard? We are 100% no exceptions as far as the kids go, so at least they'd float :unsure: . But as other posts have pointed out, being in our waters in the PNW for anything longer than a few minutes is going to be life threatening. Even in summer. Especially considering even with a PFD on, the clothing we are wearing is unlikely to provide much protection.

I got in touch with Fireboy-Xintex yesterday, and they responded today with an e-mail. I estimated my engine room to be approximately 320 cu. ft., based on 10ft wide by 8ft long & 4ft deep. I'll obviously have to measure properly before ordering. Had to put spaces in the links, as the forum says I have too many links in the post!

Your options for a 350 CF system are as follows:

· CG0350227-B, 350 CF Automatic system with HFC227ea, @ $1,351.00 plus shipping
· Availability/Lead Time is 3 - 5 days after receipt of payment

If you are interested in the manual/automatic system that is model number MA20350227-BL and your cost is $1,391.00/each plus shipping and the manual discharge cable kit is sold separately. In order to give you a price on the discharge cable kit, I would need to know the length of the cable needed. You would measure from where the pull handle is located to where the extinguisher is mounted. They start at 6 ft. and go up in 2 ft. increments (6, 8, 10, etc.).

If you have a diesel engine and/or generator, you must also purchase the engine shutdown system to shut these systems (engines, generator, blowers, etc.) down when the extinguisher discharges. If you have a gas engine, generator, etc. then the shutdown system is not required. If you need the engine shutdown system, then I will need to know how many systems you need to shut down and if they are 12V or 24/32V systems.

The prices given are MSRP and our distributors often offer a discount off the MSRP. Here are some distributors that you can check pricing & availability with:

· West Marine – www. westmarine .com – 800-262-8464
· Defender Industries – www. defender .com – 800-628-8225
· Jamestown Distributors – www. jamestowndistributors .com – 800-497-0010
· Boatstore.com – www. boatstore. com – 978-410-3200
· Lewis Marine – www. lewismarine .com – 800-327-3792
· Fisheries Supply – www .fisheriessupply .com – 800-426-6930
· Rex Marine – www .rexmar .com – 909-476-0335
· San Diego Marine Exchange – www .downwindmarine .com – 619-223-1863

Thank you for your interest in Fireboy-Xintex products!
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Tyson, Ackerley, Sidney & Gene
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Boat fire 11 May 2017 20:38 #54

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The 47 engine room is open to the laz area so you have to include the total space and shut down the gen too.
Is the 38 that way?

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47 Fire 12 May 2017 06:08 #55

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C-NUMB wrote: Have been thinking about installing a simple cctv camera and a few engine room temperature monitors in my 2556. They will not stop the fire but maybe give little more time to react in case something unusual going on down there...


When I bought my 2556, the surveyor recommended adding an automatic fire suppression system or a fire port (and an extinguisher whose nozzle would fit in the port). The issue with the smaller boats whose engine compartments open up to the outside air is that opening the engine hatch to put out the fire introduces a huge amount of oxygen, which can cause the fire to flare out of control. So even if you have advance warning of an engine fire, if you don't have an effective way to put it out without making it worse, you're just as screwed.

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Boat fire 12 May 2017 08:40 #56

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Maybe 5 minutes. Wasted 3 trying to get the dingy off. Besides loosing power the side of the davit is the side of the fire
You can't use dingy for a life raft if it's on top of your boat and you need a davit. There were three of us and we couldn't get it off.

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47 Fire 12 May 2017 08:47 #57

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I don't believe a camera would have helped. I got there quickly but couldn't lift the floor board without a torch of flames shooting out. Dry chemical did no good.

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2001 4788
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Boat fire 12 May 2017 08:51 #58

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So how did you escape?

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Boat fire 12 May 2017 14:10 #59

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Hello David,

I am really glad to hear that all got out with no issues and you are able to post about the event - safe is a great thing.
Some of us have read bout your trip of a lifetime recently with your boat an d wished we could be aboard.
Since you left in November 16' and covered thousands of miles headed to south Fla and Bahamas and back the boat appeared top perform flawlessly. Countless hours at hull speed but a good deal of the trip (distance) appeared to be at 16-17 knots which is the way we cruised as well.

I am very curious at your thoughts of a turbo problem after all these hours of use and many at higher loads and temps.
Seems that your first and only problem with the boat was on 4/30 when you had 'fuel all over the engine room from failed injector lines".
Thankfully you picked this up with an engine room inspection prior to covering any distances.
It also appears that you had attributed that to injector lines that you may have affected by replacing all injectors just prior to that discovery.

After that down time and posts the next posts on 5/6 identified your boat as having been lost.
With the events before and after the fire how does the turbo seem to be the culprit and how did that initiate the unrecoverable fire onboard?

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47 Fire 12 May 2017 15:22 #60

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carters cove wrote: Maybe 5 minutes. Wasted 3 trying to get the dingy off. Besides loosing power the side of the davit is the side of the fire
You can't use dingy for a life raft if it's on top of your boat and you need a davit. There were three of us and we couldn't get it off.


carters cove wrote: I don't believe a camera would have helped. I got there quickly but couldn't lift the floor board without a torch of flames shooting out. Dry chemical did no good.


THANKS for the indformation Dave!!

Just a couple of quick follow up questions...

1. Do you think, given the situation that happened to you that having a liferaft on your 4788 in the cockpit would have been effective?
2. Do you think that having smoke detectors in the engine space would have provided you with more time to escape?

Thanks again! I am glad everyone is safe!

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47 Fire 12 May 2017 15:28 #61

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Question: Here's a pic of a Greenwater Marine exhaust riser installed...it's slightly touching the bulkhead (or at least the insulation on the bulkhead). Is this a potential fire hazard? Greenwater Marine says "no".


Dave

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47 Fire 12 May 2017 15:46 #62

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Water cooled exhaust riser so no - but I would notch the insulation and the bulkhead slightly for no contact.
FWIW - I have done that same 'notch' on a 38 and 47 Bayliner in the past with the new risers added.
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47 Fire 12 May 2017 16:08 #63

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davesisk wrote: Question: Here's a pic of a Greenwater Marine exhaust riser installed...it's slightly touching the bulkhead (or at least the insulation on the bulkhead). Is this a potential fire hazard? Greenwater Marine says "no".


Dave


Water cooled yes but if you have a undetected water delivery failure it.sure could change things in a hurry. I would say if all always went well it's not a problem but we know things dont always go well.
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47 Fire 12 May 2017 16:52 #64

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"Water cooled yes but if you have a undetected water delivery failure it.sure could change things in a hurry. I would say if all always went well it's not a problem but we know things dont always go well."

FWIW - I have found that when 'all' cooling water was denied to these SS risers on the non turbo'd Hino's the first result is a melted exhaust hose with the double walled riser remaining fairly 'cool'.
YMMV
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47 Fire 12 May 2017 16:55 #65

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IMHO... engine will quit from overheat before that riser can cause any concern.... agree with Smitty's comment... eliminate contact, exhaust system stress concern...
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47 Fire 12 May 2017 20:59 #66

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Solandri wrote:

C-NUMB wrote: Have been thinking about installing a simple cctv camera and a few engine room temperature monitors in my 2556. They will not stop the fire but maybe give little more time to react in case something unusual going on down there...


When I bought my 2556, the surveyor recommended adding an automatic fire suppression system or a fire port (and an extinguisher whose nozzle would fit in the port). The issue with the smaller boats whose engine compartments open up to the outside air is that opening the engine hatch to put out the fire introduces a huge amount of oxygen, which can cause the fire to flare out of control. So even if you have advance warning of an engine fire, if you don't have an effective way to put it out without making it worse, you're just as screwed.


Brilliant idea, never heard about the fire port before. Don't know would it actually help on a bigger vessel like a 47 but certainly on a 2556!

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47 Fire 13 May 2017 01:31 #67

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Just ordered a Fireboy-Xintrex fully automatic system for my boat. I measured up today and was happy to find out I overestimated by a fairly large amount... so I only needed a 200 cu ft system, without the manual pull option. I didn't want to mess around installing a remote manual switch and honestly... if it's that bad, the seconds involved between me manually pulling vs the automatic trigger at 175 degrees is better spent making sure my family is safe. All in, shipping included, $525 from Defender. Let's hope I never need it, but I'm glad I've done it.

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47 Fire 13 May 2017 01:46 #68

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tdcooper99 wrote: Just ordered a Fireboy-Xintrex fully automatic system for my boat. I measured up today and was happy to find out I overestimated by a fairly large amount... so I only needed a 200 cu ft system, without the manual pull option. I didn't want to mess around installing a remote manual switch and honestly... if it's that bad, the seconds involved between me manually pulling vs the automatic trigger at 175 degrees is better spent making sure my family is safe. All in, shipping included, $525 from Defender. Let's hope I never need it, but I'm glad I've done it.


More is usually better, make sure the blower is off if you hit the switch unless it auto goes off then hit the switch

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47 Fire 13 May 2017 16:54 #69

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tdcooper99 wrote: Just ordered a Fireboy-Xintrex fully automatic system for my boat. I measured up today and was happy to find out I overestimated by a fairly large amount... so I only needed a 200 cu ft system, without the manual pull option. I didn't want to mess around installing a remote manual switch and honestly... if it's that bad, the seconds involved between me manually pulling vs the automatic trigger at 175 degrees is better spent making sure my family is safe. All in, shipping included, $525 from Defender. Let's hope I never need it, but I'm glad I've done it.


Yup overestimated for sure,but better to be safe than sorry.
I have 2 125CU ft system on mine.

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47 Fire 15 May 2017 17:01 #70

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Do you have pictures / advice of where you mounted your extinguishers? I'm planning on installing in my 2858 and I'm a bit unsure where to put it that it would be both effective and reasonably out of the way.

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Boat fire 15 May 2017 17:59 #71

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Thought I posted a pic?
Fuel tank bulkhead, centered, up high,
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47 Fire 16 May 2017 12:36 #72

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Ruffryder wrote: I see the dinghy still up there...wondering if he was able to deploy .
Not a good place to be in situations like this.


So, if the tender were carried on the bow (still requiring a davit to launch), would that have been any better in this situation? In an engine room fire, I would assume power to the flybridge would probably go off, so an electric davit wouldn't work. Manual davit would, but would that allow enough time to launch? Or is an inflatable dinghy on the bow lightweight enough to drop in by hand just the overall best answer?

Dave

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47 Fire 16 May 2017 13:32 #73

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"So, if the tender were carried on the bow (still requiring a davit to launch), would that have been any better in this situation? In an engine room fire, I would assume power to the flybridge would probably go off, so an electric davit wouldn't work. Manual davit would, but would that allow enough time to launch?
Dave - FWIW I have been actively boating for over 30 years and have never seen a diesel boat fire expect online or in the news. I would say that towing a dinghy would put in a place that was most readily useable and safely away from any fire.

The rest of your questions and mostly personal in nature.....
"I would assume power to the flybridge would probably go off" - maybe and maybe not Or is an inflatable dinghy on the bow lightweight enough to drop in by hand just the overall best answer?"

"Manual davit would, but would that allow enough time to launch?" - how fast is the fire burning? Do you have gas or propane stored onboard? How fast can you deploy the dinghy? Ids it prudent to remain onboard and attempt this?

"Or is an inflatable dinghy on the bow lightweight enough to drop in by hand just the overall best answer?" - How heavy is the dinghy" how big are you? How strong are you? Are you the only one that might have to do this? What is you had a bad back or ankle sprain that day?

I never want to make a fire sound like it is not important - but I believe that fires are prevented by the way you maintain your boat and the way yo plan to provision it. Access to life jackets, a good ditch bag, and two good means or communication for help is paramount.

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Boat fire 16 May 2017 13:49 #74

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An inflatable boat on the bow is light enough, also a USCG approved sealed container type of buoyant apparatus..
I keep an 8' inflatable on the aft deck cover on my 3870.
A ditch bag is also handy with a hand held VHF in it.
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Boat fire 16 May 2017 15:26 #75

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We thought (and discussed here) quite a bit about liferaft placement on our 4788

We finally settled on storing the cannister style liferaft in the cockpit.
The reason is that from the cockpit it is immediately deployable, and easily boarded.

Like most others we also keep a tender on the boat deck of our 4788. The problem with using the tender as a liferaft is that there are situations (like the fire Dave experienced) that make the davit unusable.

We feel that early detection is the key to fire suppression and even better yet fire prevention. I do not think that very often the whole engine room bursts into flames with no prior notice. What I see as a more probable scenario is that a combustble material gets hot then ignites. The actual fire is preceded by smoke. If we can detect the smoke prior to ignition we can prevent the fire altogether. Even if we are unable to prevent the fire, the precious time we gain can be utilized in attempting to suppress the fire, or make our escape.

In a home, working smoke detectors are proven to provide warning time that saves lives. In a boat the same situation applies.

We all seem to keep smoke detectors in our boats, but we, as boaters seem to like to put them in areas that are least likely to ever be the source of a fire. I for example have one in the guest stateroom. Seriously, what is the chance of the guest stateroom ever being the source of a fire.

I would suggest that it might be a better idea to place a smoke and or CO detector, or better yet more than one in the engine space. Another good location is behind the electrical panel on a 4788 since shore power connectors seem to be the frequent source of fire.

These detectors need to be connected together, and/or to a siren, so that if one detector senses smoke all of the detectors go into alarm. This does not have to be marine equipment. The home fire alarm market has done a really good job of developing these lifesaving technologies.
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