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TOPIC: 38XX Manicooler maintenance

38XX Manicooler maintenance 20 May 2015 03:05 #1

  • Jim Gandee
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I'm doing some preventative maintenance prior to some planned cruising. It was pretty clear the manicoolers have never been removed from my 1989 3888 so I decided to yank them both off, inspect for the dreaded mud and possible ceramic coat the coolers.
After disassembly I was pleasantly surprised, there was absolutely no mud build upon the interior of the cooler! Based on the condition of the coolers after 26 years I doubt I'll ceramic coat them unless I'm missing something. I did notice some minor scale deposit on the bundle tubes which I suppose degrades the heat transfer some. Any ideas on de-scaling?




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Jim Gandee
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Hino 175's
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38XX Manicooler maintenance 20 May 2015 03:29 #2

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wow those are in nice shape - better than I wouldv expected.

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Novurania 335DL. 30HP. WKRP in cincinnati. Previously: Bayliner 3818 in PNW.

38XX Manicooler maintenance 20 May 2015 03:45 #3

  • canoel
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Yes, seeing your pictures gives me hope!! I have been dreading doing mine as well.
Not sure how you can remove the scale. Maybe some CLR, a brush and some elbow grease?
If they were mine I would be tempted to not ceramic coat them either.
Keep us posted on how it goes.

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Joel
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38XX Manicooler maintenance 20 May 2015 03:51 #4

  • mmichellich
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On the bundles you should see nothing but metal on the antifreeze sides of the tubes, ie the outsides. On the casting interior you should see nothing but aluminum. Any buildup of even a very thin scale degrades heat transfer. Before you reinstall them run both an electrical test and a pressure test. Use 100 percent new O rings on end caps.

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Started boating 1965
Bayliners owned: 26 Victoria, 28 Bounty, 32, 38, and 47 since 1996
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38XX Manicooler maintenance 20 May 2015 03:52 #5

  • peterclark1
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Mine were a real mess nothing like the clean look yours have. We cleaned them with lye as we did with other parts of the cooling which did a very nice job.
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I have a 1987 Bayliner 3460 with twin Hines EH700ti diesel engines. She has been 95% rebuilt & is just about done.

38XX Manicooler maintenance 20 May 2015 03:57 #6

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Please elaborate on what you mean by "electrical" test.

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Jim Gandee
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38XX Manicooler maintenance 20 May 2015 16:38 #7

  • Pat Careen
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Jim Gandee wrote: Please elaborate on what you mean by "electrical" test.


What he means is a conductivity test. The tube bundle has to be electrically isolated from the casting to prevent electrolysis, this is achieved by using the o rings. To check, the electrical resistance between the bundle and housing should be infinite. This is also why distilled water should be used when mixing coolant. Undistilled water contains minerals which make it conductive, distilled water is not.

Pat.
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1988 3218 Figgy Duff
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38XX Manicooler maintenance 20 May 2015 22:11 #8

  • adubois21
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Hi Jim,
I read a lot on this forum. I don´t own a Bayliner MY yet. I know that a bad manicooler can kill an engine. It´s why I try to get as much information and comments on these in order to make up my mind.
How many hours on your engines ?
What kind of maintenance was done on your manicoolers since new ?
Thank you.

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38XX Manicooler maintenance 20 May 2015 23:26 #9

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My boat has 1200 and something hours. I am the third owner. There was no evidence either manicooler was ever removed from the respective engine, ie the paint on the boltheads was undisturbed, no records, etc.
FWIW, I am having the bundles descaled at a radiator shop prior to reinstallation. They aren't terrible but considering the work required to pull those things now's the time.

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Jim Gandee
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38XX Manicooler maintenance 21 May 2015 01:42 #10

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1200 hours are low hours but the PO and you must have take great care to the coolant maintenance to keep these manicoolers so clean.
Thank you.

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38XX Manicooler maintenance 21 May 2015 15:00 #11

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I was surprised at how good the manicoolers looked as well, especially with the salt water exposure! I'm very interested in learning more about coolant replacement schedules as the annual, or even biennial replacement times seem awful short considering the newer types of coolant available, and their cost. I'm using currently Peak FleetGuard EC-1 and at $27/gal. It adds up. I know some will say if you can't afford the maintenance don't buy the boat but if the newer products outperform and last longer than those of 30 years ago then why adhere to maintenance manuals written for older products. How many of us still change our car oil every 3,000 miles? :)

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38XX Manicooler maintenance 21 May 2015 15:34 #12

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Jim Gandee wrote: I was surprised at how good the manicoolers looked as well, especially with the salt water exposure! I'm very interested in learning more about coolant replacement schedules as the annual, or even biennial replacement times seem awful short considering the newer types of coolant available, and their cost. I'm using currently Peak FleetGuard EC-1 and at $27/gal. It adds up. I know some will say if you can't afford the maintenance don't buy the boat but if the newer products outperform and last longer than those of 30 years ago then why adhere to maintenance manuals written for older products. How many of us still change our car oil every 3,000 miles? :)



I was under the impression the part of the manicoolers that sees salt water are the insides of the tubes in the bundle. The rest is antifreeze. The typical failure areas on the castings are where the big O rings are located and where the exhaust tubes run through the side of the manicooler. The failure in the latter case is due to microboiling of the antifreeze or sometimes called cavitation that bores holes in the exhaust tubes. It then directs antifreeze into cylinders or best case the exhaust or both.


Hino put out a document maybe 15 or more years ago that indicated antifreeze needs to be changed yearly to prevent manicooler damage. Hino experts I have talked with tell me I can push this to 2 years with first class antifreeze.

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Started boating 1965
Bayliners owned: 26 Victoria, 28 Bounty, 32, 38, and 47 since 1996
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38XX Manicooler maintenance 22 May 2015 01:49 #13

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I was under the impression the part of the manicoolers that sees salt water are the insides of the tubes in the bundle


That is my understanding. I was surprised that even after over 25 years of having salt water running through the bundles there were no completely blocked bundle tubes. The O-rings showed no trace of leakage and I did not see any discoloration in the coolant. I'd say that was pretty darn good service. I wish I had the maintenance records to account for the good service. I'd like to learn more about the cause of the erosion.

Take a look at the following from the Peak website regarding their Final Charge Global product:

FINAL CHARGE® NOAT Extended Life Coolants/Antifreezes are formulated to meet the requirements of today's technologically advanced heavy-duty engines without the use of Supplemental Coolant Additives (SCAs). Its Nitrited Organic Acid Technology (NOAT) features a carboxylate base formulation, with nitrite and molybdate to deliver total cooling system protection for 750,000 miles of on-road use, 8 years or 20,000 hours of off-highway use, whichever comes first.

Now, just because the manufacturer says it'll last 8 years or 20,000 hrs doesn't mean I would ever run it that long in a marine application but I can't help but wonder if the use of these advanced products would allow us to safely lengthen the run time between changes?

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38XX Manicooler maintenance 22 May 2015 05:03 #14

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Before you go to a new colant make sure it meats the manufacturers mil spec. The wrong colant can cause cavitation that will destroy a engine from the inside. On class 8 trucks that can be as little as 20,000 mi about 2 months. If you want to go exotic try Evans coolant it's waterless has a 375+ deg f boiling point and a better then -40f freeze point also much better cavitation protection the down side is $35 a gallon

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38XX Manicooler maintenance 22 May 2015 17:47 #15

  • mmichellich
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Earl is now using Cummins coolant in my Hinos the last couple of flushes and changes.

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Started boating 1965
Bayliners owned: 26 Victoria, 28 Bounty, 32, 38, and 47 since 1996

38XX Manicooler maintenance 22 May 2015 19:17 #16

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mmichellich wrote: Earl is now using Cummins coolant in my Hinos the last couple of flushes and changes.

do you remember if the coolant is green or red

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38XX Manicooler maintenance 23 May 2015 23:20 #17

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mjohnson wrote:

mmichellich wrote: Earl is now using Cummins coolant in my Hinos the last couple of flushes and changes.

do you remember if the coolant is green or red


Aqua or bluish green at 50:50 mix

Named ES Compleat Fleetguard
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Started boating 1965
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38XX Manicooler maintenance 29 May 2015 20:16 #18

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Pat Careen wrote:

Jim Gandee wrote: Please elaborate on what you mean by "electrical" test.


What he means is a conductivity test. The tube bundle has to be electrically isolated from the casting to prevent electrolysis, this is achieved by using the o rings. To check, the electrical resistance between the bundle and housing should be infinite. This is also why distilled water should be used when mixing coolant. Undistilled water contains minerals which make it conductive, distilled water is not.

Pat.

Can this test be done with coolant in the system? I just tested mine and the reading was .316 ohms on the port engine and 7.2 k ohms on the SB. I had the port engine manicooler ceramic coated 2 years ago, as far as I know the SB manicooler has never been removed. I was going to do it last winter but water tank replacement went to the top of the list. My electrical skills are pretty much limited to 12 & 24 volt DC circuits.

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38XX Manicooler maintenance 29 May 2015 21:13 #19

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capt. ron wrote:

Pat Careen wrote:

Jim Gandee wrote: Please elaborate on what you mean by "electrical" test.


What he means is a conductivity test. The tube bundle has to be electrically isolated from the casting to prevent electrolysis, this is achieved by using the o rings. To check, the electrical resistance between the bundle and housing should be infinite. This is also why distilled water should be used when mixing coolant. Undistilled water contains minerals which make it conductive, distilled water is not.

Pat.

Can this test be done with coolant in the system? I just tested mine and the reading was .316 ohms on the port engine and 7.2 k ohms on the SB. I had the port engine manicooler ceramic coated 2 years ago, as far as I know the SB manicooler has never been removed. I was going to do it last winter but water tank replacement went to the top of the list. My electrical skills are pretty much limited to 12 & 24 volt DC circuits.


I would worry some that the .316 Ohm reading would indicate that somehow the end cap is not isolated well enough from the manicooler casting via the "O" rings. Look for degradation of the O ring seats if you do take things apart. Did whoever that installed the port manicooler post ceramic coating run an electrical isolation test? Were new O rings installed then?
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38XX Manicooler maintenance 30 May 2015 23:04 #20

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It's time to change coolant so I'll get new orings and redo the end caps and make sure the tube bundle is isolated from the casting. I sent it to Washington state to someone who specializes in manicooler repair and ceramic coating. I'll call NHD and order the orings Monday, thanks Mickey I appreciate your help.

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1999 Logic Marine 17' CC/50 Merc.
on Louisiana pool Mississippi River.

38XX Manicooler maintenance 31 May 2015 04:14 #21

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FWIW,
I am planning to ceramic coat my coolers this next week. I just pre-tested the ohms between the bundles and the cooler casting and got an infinite reading on both. I'll retest after the coating to compare and verify an infinite reading.

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38XX Manicooler maintenance 23 Sep 2015 12:45 #22

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Our 1988 3818 has about 1200 hrs on EH 700s

It has been 6 years and 1100 hrs since the antifreeze was changed.

Engines run well and no over heating.

As apart of this year's winterization I am going to remove the mani coolers and risers.
The boat will be on the hard in Saint John NB over the winter.

Does anyone have any suggestions of how to do this, where to send the manicoolers and risers for ceramic coating and rebuild?

Is there a one stop shop for this where I can just send them away, have them cleaned, coated and then rebuilt with new orings and shipped back with a full set ofor gaskets?

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38XX Manicooler maintenance 23 Sep 2015 12:54 #23

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"Does anyone have any suggestions of how to do this, where to send the manicoolers and risers for ceramic coating and rebuild?"
Earl....
www.baylinerguru.com/about.html

If you need the R & R procedure let me know and I will dig it out.

Hope this helps

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Northport NY

38XX Manicooler maintenance 23 Sep 2015 13:34 #24

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Smitty

Thanks for the quick reply

Please dig out and send the re and re procedure to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Ken

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38XX Manicooler maintenance 23 Sep 2015 14:15 #25

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Hello ,I recently boat a 1993 Bayliner 2252 classic.Wouldn't be smart for me to take a trip from milwaukee to Michigan over the great lake??I have a 50 gallon tank,sleeper for 2 the trip is about 3 and a half hours

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