Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: 4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 27 Jan 2015 01:07 #1

  • egbauman
  • egbauman's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 409
  • Thank you received: 47
I've been having water leaking into the wall of the mid cabin. It was originally happening only in rough water where would take a pounding on the port side but lately evolved into leaks during heavy rain. I located a stanchion that needed rebedding and fixed that but this did not solve the leak. After many weeks investigating, I figured it must be a leak in the rub rail somewhere so brought the boat to the yard to have them remove a section (from the aft port light forward to the end of that 12' section) and find the leak. Here's a summary of what we found:

All but 4 of the screws holding the rail on were simple self-tapping screws with one exception. The other 4 screws were actually through-bolted to the interior of the boat.

All of the screws holding the deck to the hull were self-tapping screws. Nothing was through-bolted.

One screw did not have any threads on it (see picture attached). How is this even a thing?

Self-tapping screws were not countersunk. This allows space for water to enter the screw hole.

One bead of caulk was found under the rail, Byliner made an attempt to get this bead on the spot where the screw holed were but often missed. This means that the self tapping screws were not caulked on to the boat.

The yard is going to fix all of this but advises me that I ought to redo the rest of the rub rail. I'm going to take a wait & see position on this.

How did Bayliner get away with workmanship like this? I know they were not the most expensive boats but still...










This message has attachments images.
Please log in or register to see it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Evan
2001 Bayliner 4788 "Fifty / Fifty II"
League City, TX
Last Edit: by egbauman. Reason: left out a word

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 27 Jan 2015 02:43 #2

  • PuraVidaTN
  • PuraVidaTN's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 144
  • Thank you received: 16
Monday Boat? Sorry I do feel your pain.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

PuraVidaTN
2008 490 Pilothouse
Proud member of the Vol Navy

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 27 Jan 2015 02:48 #3

  • vinomaker
  • vinomaker's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 417
  • Thank you received: 83
I am very surprised. I also have a 2001 model. I haven't had any leaks or concerns at this point. It will be interesting to hear if any other 4788/490 owners have had the rub rail off and found the same workmanship.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Cheers!
Vinomaker
Jerome Robbins
Rear Commodore, Fidalgo Yacht Club
Anacortes, WA
2001 Bayliner 4788
Twin 370 Cummins
1994 Bayliner Ciera 2855 454 V8-7.4L
1994 Bayliner Classic 2252 V6-5.2L

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 27 Jan 2015 02:57 #4

  • jmcannonball
  • jmcannonball's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 958
  • Thank you received: 61
I'm going to pull the rub rails off my 38 and I wont be surprised if I see the same thing.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Two C's 1990 3888 MY, 175 Hinos, Hurth 630 Trannys[/B]
Past Commodore Emerald Rose Yacht Club
Member International Order of the Blue Gavel
MMSI: 338030604

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 27 Jan 2015 03:41 #5

  • freedre
  • freedre's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 1337
  • Thank you received: 188

jmcannonball wrote: I'm going to pull the rub rails off my 38 and I wont be surprised if I see the same thing.


Ditto

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Midnight Star
1996 3587
Twin diesels, Hino 250's
Ladysmith, BC
History: 1996 - 2655, 2001 - 2855, 1984 - 3270

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 27 Jan 2015 04:03 #6

  • ksanders
  • ksanders's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 3341
  • Thank you received: 237
The rub rail screws should not be what is making the mechanical bond between the hull and the deck

I do not know what is making that bond on your boat but it should not be the rub rail screws.

The hull-deck joint should be covered by the rub tail, not made by it.

I've had the other side of that area apart on my boat, inside the master berth and saw spaced through bolts.

Mine is a 2001 as well

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

KEVIN SANDERS
4788 LISAS WAY
SEWARD, ALASKA
www.mvlisasway.com
Last Edit: by ksanders.

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 27 Jan 2015 04:38 #7

  • boatworkfl
  • boatworkfl's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 7141
  • Thank you received: 358
Reminds me of the drip rail on my 3870, on the port side every other pre drilled hole had a screw in it, starboard side h a d a screw in every 3rd pilot hole, no caulking at all.
water would leak threw and run down the hidden wire chase above the window and back to the aft cabin corners, rotting the non marine teak plywood.
I have not explored the rub rail.
That is bayliner, make it look good on the outside, and what you can see inside.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
Twin 350 GM power
Located in Seward, AK
Retired marine surveyor

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 27 Jan 2015 04:44 #8

  • Back2Water
  • Back2Water's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 210
  • Thank you received: 19
I've read about similar leaks in the 2452s of the same era

www.baylinerownersclub.org/~bayline1/ind...52-owners?start=1475

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

David W. PDX, OR
2002 Bayliner 2452XE Ciera
5.0L Mercruiser (carbed) w/ A1 gen 2 drive
(14.5"x15" 4-blade Solas Aluminum Prop)
1984 2070 Explorer w/ Alaskan Bulkhead (SOLD)

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 27 Jan 2015 05:21 #9

  • egbauman
  • egbauman's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 409
  • Thank you received: 47
Kevin - I completely agree with you. I would expect the hull/deck joint to be through-bolted and then the rub rail screwed in on top of that. In my case, the joint was screwed together and then the rub-rail was through bolted on top (at least in 4 places in this 12' section). Completely backwards.

I've been inside the anchor locker on my boat and saw everything through-bolted there. I told the yard guys about that and they said that the rail that goes around the bow needs to be really secure otherwise it would just pop right off with the slightest force. So not surprised that Byliner at least did that part right. But the rail around the rest of the boat can be screwed on and not bolted. I would have been fine with that if the at least had got the caulking correct, countersunk the screws, and used screws that at least had a thread on it!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Evan
2001 Bayliner 4788 "Fifty / Fifty II"
League City, TX

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 27 Jan 2015 07:44 #10

  • Stray Cat
  • Stray Cat's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 453
  • Thank you received: 19
What year is your boat?
I thought the 4788 had the aluminum rub rail until they became Meridian. Mine is a '98 and has the aluminum rub rail. Maybe yours is not stock, but aftermarket put on later?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Boatless :-(
After all is said and done, there is always a lot more said than done.

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 27 Jan 2015 10:51 #11

  • higgins_jr
  • higgins_jr's Avatar
  • Away
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1429
  • Thank you received: 357
Evan, I'm surprised with what you've discovered. I'm leaning towards it being a repair/replacement of the rub rail.

I've had to dismantle the roof area of the portside bunk room to get at the bolts holding down one of the posts for the handrail. I'll take a closer look at the rub rail bolts. I tighten them periodically and I think most of mine are bolts. Will let you know what I find!

Cheere

This message has an attachment image.
Please log in or register to see it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

John H
Brisbane QLD Aust
"Harbor-nating"

2000 - 4788/Cummins 370's

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 27 Jan 2015 11:08 #12

  • Obi
  • Obi's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 1046
  • Thank you received: 158
Question: in your second picture I can see a thin stipe reminant of white caulking on top and below the area of the rub rails, could it possibly be that the whole idea from bayliner was to seal the rub rails both on top and below with flexible caulking so that water or moisture does not get behind it( just like one would do round the edges of a wall mounted bathroom hand wash ) .

Maybe with time the caulking wore away and water began to seep behind the rub rails, if this is the case, can one just replace the thin stripe of flexible marine caulking on top and below instead of the much harder job of removing the rub rails?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Bayliner 242 EU (2006)
5.0 L Mercruiser , Alpha I gen II .
Raw water cooling.

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 27 Jan 2015 12:47 #13

  • egbauman
  • egbauman's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 409
  • Thank you received: 47
John - I had to remove the same panel yesterday. In fact there are 4 bolts in that section but they are bolts that hold the rub-rail to the boat. You'll see the ends of tap screws near the bolts. Those go through the hull/deck joint. If you continue to look aft in the mod cabin, you won't find any bolts - only screws. Same if you go forward into the master.

I asked the yard guys if it looked like this was an after-market job by a PO but they were pretty confident it looked like original shipyard work.

Stray Cat - I have a 2001. I've been told that Bayliner moved from an aluminum to stainless rub rail in the 1999 model year.

Obi - that could very well have been their strategy. But don't see how they could expect that to survive in a marine environment. My rub rail takes a pounding from water when the waves are more than 2' on the beam.

I'll fix this section right now but think I'l eventually get to the other sections on the sides of the boat. Looks like an additional 3 12' sections to be repaired. Since this will involve accessing the interior of the rail and removal of a lot of interior goods, I'll likely wait until I do a major refit of the interior. I'll likely leave the section that goes around the bow alone since that is bolted on and probably a lot stronger than the pieces on the side.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Evan
2001 Bayliner 4788 "Fifty / Fifty II"
League City, TX

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 27 Jan 2015 14:40 #14

  • mmichellich
  • mmichellich's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 7234
  • Thank you received: 381
It would interesting to ask someone like CSR Marine or North Harbor diesel about the 47 rub rails. They do repairs to 47s all the time.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Started boating 1965
Bayliners owned: 26 Victoria, 28 Bounty, 32, 38, and 47 since 1996

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 27 Jan 2015 18:45 #15

  • brad4550
  • brad4550's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 378
  • Thank you received: 50
Hi all......I have replaced our rub rail 1985/45 and it was like Even's. I sealed deck/hull joint w/5200 and used a rub rail like that in Evans pic.Our's to was mostly screwed w/some thru bolts,
I would say that most if not all 32,38,43,45 and 47 are like this as I have helped others replace sections of their rub rails.
Also if you see any caulk along the top or bottom edge most likely an owner did this......this is a good idea to stop those pesky leaks.
This may get me in hot water however this is what I have seen.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Brad & Sharon
Lady Jake
1985 4550 EH 700TI /Twin Disc 502
LaConner,Wa. (summer)
2003 Scout CC 24' W/225 Yamaha
kailua Kona,Hi (Winter)

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 30 Jan 2015 00:42 #16

  • Pacrimrat
  • Pacrimrat's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • 1995 4788, PNW
  • Posts: 1309
  • Thank you received: 137


I’m having trouble posting a photo showing one of the few bolts.
These photos are from Ken’s boat in NZ. (1995)
He replaced all of the original aluminum rail.

I suggested he use Tinnerman washers on the new bolts which he did. These washers increase the surface contact area.

Be careful when reinstalling screws in the bow area. Several cables and water lines are in range of the screws.

When I bought my boat it had a water leak in the anchor wash down line. Someone ran a screw into it when repairing the rub rail.


Chris

This message has attachments images.
Please log in or register to see it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last Edit: by Pacrimrat.

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 30 Jan 2015 01:32 #17

  • Obi
  • Obi's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 1046
  • Thank you received: 158

brad4550 wrote: Also if you see any caulk along the top or bottom edge most likely an owner did this......

bayliner , searay and a host of other boat manufacturers put a thin layer of caulk along thier rub rails from the factory.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Bayliner 242 EU (2006)
5.0 L Mercruiser , Alpha I gen II .
Raw water cooling.

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 30 Jan 2015 04:23 #18

  • brad4550
  • brad4550's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 378
  • Thank you received: 50
Hi Obi
Yes I could be wrong my info.base is from Bayliner owners(about calk line) , employes at Bayliner(Arlingtonplant),and what I have seen and worked on...good luck and have a great cruise...Brad

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Brad & Sharon
Lady Jake
1985 4550 EH 700TI /Twin Disc 502
LaConner,Wa. (summer)
2003 Scout CC 24' W/225 Yamaha
kailua Kona,Hi (Winter)

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 30 Jan 2015 11:07 #19

  • BaylinerJaun
  • BaylinerJaun's Avatar
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 10
  • Thank you received: 1
My 2855 had water entering from swim platform and also into rear berth. This was also due to rainwater ingress through the join behind the rub rail, as the two parts of the hull were not sealed.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Sold it.

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 30 Jan 2015 12:25 #20

  • SuperiorDiver
  • SuperiorDiver's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 702
  • Thank you received: 81
I removed a section of the rub rail on my 1996 4087, same thing. On mine, the top of the hull separated from the bottom for about 3 feet. I cleaned it and sealed it with 5200, then bolted and screwed it together. So far it has held together.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 31 Jan 2015 08:18 #21

  • higgins_jr
  • higgins_jr's Avatar
  • Away
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1429
  • Thank you received: 357
Evan, I took a look in the gunwale area of the bunk stateroom (while the roof is down and exposed) and mine is bolted thru (nuts/washers) consistently every second bolt about every 10". There are a few screw points coming thru here and there, so it would seem in this area, they used bolts and screws alternatively. Hence there are plenty of bolts on my boat holding the hull and super structure together. I guess some production crews were better than others or there have been repairs or replacements/change outs.

It would be good if someone from the Arlington WA plant who worked there could chime in with the production standard specs. Rob M, maybe you could ask Bob Hinds to see if he knows.

Cheers

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

John H
Brisbane QLD Aust
"Harbor-nating"

2000 - 4788/Cummins 370's
Last Edit: by higgins_jr. Reason: More info

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 19 Jul 2016 02:23 #22

  • Companion
  • Companion's Avatar
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
  • Posts: 2
  • Thank you received: 1
I want to replace my aluminum rub rail with the rubber and stainless rub rail. Does anyone know what the profile of the rubber is, or where to get it?
The following user(s) said Thank You: tower3218

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 21 Jul 2016 14:04 #23

  • Woodsea
  • Woodsea's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Salt Lake City
  • Posts: 645
  • Thank you received: 92
Companion,
No one knows what model you have or where you are located so it's hard to answer your question. Suggest you fill out your profile which will help folks help you.

Tacomarine.com is one source for rub rails.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

2000 4788 w Cummins 370's, underhulls, swim step hull extension
12' Rendova center console with 40HP Yamaha
MV Kia Orana
Currently Alameda CA

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 21 Jul 2016 19:42 #24

  • Mr. Darcy
  • Mr. Darcy's Avatar
  • Online
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Love to fish for tuna
  • Posts: 810
  • Thank you received: 171
The old Beachcrafts, which were fairly inexpensive, had the hull and deck glassed together. The rub rails hardware was only to hold the rub rail on. Strange that Bayliner did not glass hull and deck together.


Greg

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Newport, Oregon
South Beach Marina
1986 3270 with twin 110 HP Hino diesels. Name of boat "Mr. Darcy"
Past work history: Prototyping, tooling, and repair for Reinell,. General fiberglass boat repair starting in 1976.
Also worked as heavy equipment mechanic, and machinery mechanic for over 30 years....

4788 rub rail removed - horror show underneath 22 Jul 2016 02:59 #25

  • boatworkfl
  • boatworkfl's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Posts: 7141
  • Thank you received: 358
I removed a short piece of rub rail on my 3870 stb rear quarter, no sealant at the hull / top seam.
Next May I will replace that alum. rub rail with TACO all plastic rub rail, it is wider and will contact the hull top and bottom. I will check each hull to top screws and seam.
I will seal or re-seal all screws and the seam with 3m 4200.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
Twin 350 GM power
Located in Seward, AK
Retired marine surveyor
Last Edit: by boatworkfl.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Moderators: higgins_jrJim Gandee
Time to create page: 0.149 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum