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TOPIC: Looking for Alaska BOC Folks

Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 12 Sep 2014 08:26 #1

  • Jollyquick
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Greetings,

We're looking for some information from Bayliner Owners who live in (or regularly travel to) Alaska in general and the Seward area in particular.

My wife and I are seriously considering retiring there on a 4588/4788 and we'd like some, "been there, done that" advice. We'll be retired military and our target date is sometime in 2017 so we we're planning well ahead. Specifically our questions are:

Concerns / Limitations to operating a 4588 or 4788 in Alaska waters?

Any modifications or upgrades recommended prior to bringing the boat up from the Lower 48?

How is the BOC community in Alaska? One of our reasons for considering a 4588/4788 is this forum and the reputation of Bayliner Owners as a supportive community. We see that regularly in other forums and that seemed odd that other trawler/liveaboard/manufacturer forums would mention it. The same can't be said for some other forums where boat snobbery and elitism is readily evident.

Is livingaboard even a consideration? Winter months? Slip availability? Local laws etc.

What about maintenance, parts etc. Is everything pretty much shipped in or is there sufficient support locally?

Are there quite a few 4588/4788 operating in Alaska? If so, is anyone considering selling in the next few years?

What about snow birding the winter months and motoring down to Mexico? I've heard some nasty stories about sailing around the Baja Peninsula.

Thanks for your patience and your feedback.

VR

T & N

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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 12 Sep 2014 08:31 #2

  • kjs
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Welcome on board!

I will move this thread to where it may get better responses (MY and Live aboards) but leave a trace here so it can be found in two places.

EDIT: it worked! Now there's a trace in welcome and live aboard but your posting is physically in Motor Yachts.

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Jürgen
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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 12 Sep 2014 08:45 #3

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Just from another thread the latest weather forecast in AK:

Alaskanmutt wrote: ...GALE WARNING THROUGH FRIDAY...

.TONIGHT...SE WIND 15 KT INCREASING TO 45 KT AFTER MIDNIGHT. SEAS
4 FT BUILDING TO 10 FT. AREAS OF FOG. RAIN.
.FRI...SE WIND 30 KT. NEAR THE COAST...SE WIND 45 KT DIMINISHING
TO 35 KT IN THE AFTERNOON. SEAS 11 FT. AREAS OF FOG. RAIN.
.FRI NIGHT...SE WIND 30 KT. SEAS 13 FT. AREAS OF FOG. RAIN.
.SAT...SE WIND 30 KT. SEAS 13 FT.
.SAT NIGHT...S WIND 25 KT. SEAS 10 FT.
.SUN...SE WIND 20 KT. SEAS 9 FT.
.MON...SE WIND 15 KT. SEAS 9 FT.
.TUE...E WIND 15 KT. SEAS 7 FT.

I wouldn't want to be in that in a 100ft boat......

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Jürgen
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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 12 Sep 2014 13:45 #4

  • ksanders
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WELCOME from Seward, Alaska!

Yes, there are several members that keep their boats in Seward Alaska!

And I have a Bayliner 4788!

To answer your questions...

First bit of advice. Get on the 50' Wait list. TODAY. It only costs $30 per year. The wait list is approx 3 years long, and will insure that you have a slip when you get a boat.
There are no rules about living aboard. Plenty of people seem to do it in the summer. Much less in the winter. Reliable power is available year round. (I monitor our boats shore power electronically and have noted amazingly few power outages).
Water is an issue in the winter. They turn off the water except at certain places on the dock. When the time comes work with the harbor to get a winter slip near the ramp and near water.

The 4788 is a fine boat for Alaskan waters. The only challenge you'll find is that when you leave Resurrection bay you have two choices East or West. The seas are generally from the south east in this area. You will be in a beam sea most of the time.
What we have found is that applying some throttle will make the boat squat in the rear providing a nice ride. We were in 6' buoy measured beam seas for example last summer and had no comfort issues.

Buy a boat with a good furnace or furnaces on board. Ventilation in our humid environment is just as important as heat.

Seward is a small town. The local hardware store has a decent supply of basic stuff like pumps etc... Storm Chasers operates a small marine store with more specialized parts.
If you have not been to Seward much there is a great grocery store. They even have a good organic section!

You just missed out on my slip mates 4788. 1994 model, well kept. He got $179K for it literally this last month.
There are probably 5 or 6 45/47 Bayliners in the harbor. It it by far the most popular large recreational boat in the harbor.

Your plan on wintering south is a good idea. It is also my plan as I get closer to retirement. Actually that's why I bought my 4788.
Figure a 6 to 8 weeks of kicked back transit time to California. Plan on leaving in late August before the weather patterns turn for winter. Come back in May.

The 4788 has the fuel capacity and seaworthiness to handle the trip fine, but watch your weather days. Rough weather is no fun in any boat, and its not fun in a 4788 either.
The longest fuel stop going south is Ensenada to Turtle Bay mexico around 300 NM.
The longest place where you have no where to hide from weather is Hinchinbrook Entrance to Icy Bay which is 165NM. If you do this run in spring or fall you can leave prior to dawn and be anchored before dusk.

Best of luck and stop by sometime. Slip F-33
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KEVIN SANDERS
4788 LISAS WAY
SEWARD, ALASKA
www.mvlisasway.com

Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 12 Sep 2014 19:18 #5

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I second everything Keven said, especially the wait list, transient parking on a boat that big would not be fun. I just received my permanent slip last month, took 4 years on the 40' list. We love Seward, its a great little town with friendly people. The folks at Storm Chasers are great to work with, and can handle most anything, including diesel work. There are LOTS of Bayliners of all sizes in the harbor.

Hope to see you around,

Rick

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1986 3870
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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 12 Sep 2014 19:38 #6

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Shy away from Whittier. The slips and the harbor is not the nicest, the people are well, not as nice as Seward and it cost way more money.

I was stationed in Seward in the late 80's Coast Guard, My wife is from there and we still have friends there. And remember, when you visit, touch Kevins boat... LOL
And the fishing is great.

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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 12 Sep 2014 20:27 #7

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Alaskanmutt wrote: And remember, when you visit, touch Kevins boat... LOL.


I'm getting a complex about you touching my boat.

Feeling sorta violated :unsure:

I suppose as long as you don't touch it below the waterline its OK. :huh:

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KEVIN SANDERS
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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 12 Sep 2014 22:12 #8

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Been a long time since I have swam in Seward Harbor.
Not sure I want to anymore :sick:

I promise to not touch the exhaust.....
Fishing over yet?

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Boatless at this time

A veteran is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including their life."

Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 12 Sep 2014 22:20 #9

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Alaskanmutt wrote: Been a long time since I have swam in Seward Harbor.
Not sure I want to anymore :sick:

I promise to not touch the exhaust.....
Fishing over yet?


Done for us for sure. I'll be on the boat two more times this season is all.
Once for maintenance and once for winterizing. Winterizing will be late October.

Probably all total six or seven days of even being on the boat left. Then it'll be March before I come down again.

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KEVIN SANDERS
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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 12 Sep 2014 23:09 #10

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I live in Juneau on a 26' Explorer. This coming winter will be our 3rd living aboard a vessel, the 2nd in our own. We love it. Seward is a beautiful place, quite similar to the area in Juneau where I work.

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1979 25' Saratoga Mercruiser 350.
1980 26' Explorer. Live aboard. Re-power next year.
Still learning, please excuse my ignorance. Cheers!

Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 14 Sep 2014 20:37 #11

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Thanks for all the excellent information!

1. I'll contact the Seward Marina and get on the 50' Slip waiting list immediately. I would have never guessed the waiting list would take so long. Ksanders, that advice alone is priceless--thank you!

2. The more I learn about the 45XX/47XX the more I like it. Thanks for the positive feedback. I keep finding the reference to Bayliners being the "Chevrolet" of boats. That seems to be an outright compliment to me. Who the heck would want to own the "Fiat" or "Citroen" of boats...?

3. What kind of furnace works well? I'm thinking a multi-fuel that can double as an incinerator to burn paper/cardboard/magazines/newspapers etc. However it would seem to make sense to use a diesel furnace as the engines are diesel...

4. Will avoid Whittier. I've received no positive comments on that marina.

5. I have two concerns in relation to boat slips in Seward: What if I find the perfect 45XX/47XX but don't have have a slip to park it in? What if I get lucky and get a slip early, but haven't found the boat to park in it? Is this a fairly common dilemma?

6. How well does a 45XX/47XX weather the winter in Alaska? Are there any after-market products I need to purchase, like a "bubbler", block heaters or remote monitor that can be checked via the internet? From what I can tell Seward Marina doesn't turn into a block of ice in the winter and reasonable winterizing of the boat is sufficient. I understand big diesels in a truck, (I ran a 7.3L Navistar Powerstroke diesel in Iceland for three years) but not so sure when it comes to diesels in a boat. I imagine they get cold-soaked being below the water line and must have some special considerations for maintenance in cold climates.

7. Are there any regular get-togethers of BOC folks in Alaska--similar to the trawler rallies you see on the US East Coast?

8. Is there a group that regularly winters south out of Alaska? I know next to nothing about Mexico and would prefer to tag a long with an established group of folks that know what they're doing. I've been overseas in Europe for so long, Mexico seems more like Iraq then our friendly US neighbor to the south.

9. When cruising south, is there an issue with firearms on board for that bit of Canadian waters? I grew up in New Hampshire and we always left our firearms at home when visiting our relatives in Canada. Is there some kind of special dispensation for US vessels transiting Canadian waters with firearms on board? I can't imagine sailing without at least a shotgun/large caliber handgun. Human's aren't the top of the food chain in Alaska, and bad people aren't relegated to land.

10. Are there any glaring questions I should be asking but am so clueless that I didn't know to ask? I'm thick skinned--you won't hurt my feelings and I'd rather identify my ignorance now before I pull the trigger on one of the biggest life changing decisions I've made in my life.

JQ

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Last Edit: by Jollyquick. Reason: Typos & Grammar

Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 14 Sep 2014 22:42 #12

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Jollyquick wrote: Thanks for all the excellent information!

1. I'll contact the Seward Marina and get on the 50' Slip waiting list immediately. I would have never guessed the waiting list would take so long. Ksanders, that advice alone is priceless--thank you!

2. The more I learn about the 45XX/47XX the more I like it. Thanks for the positive feedback. I keep finding the reference to Bayliners being the "Chevrolet" of boats. That seems to be an outright compliment to me. Who the heck would want to own the "Fiat" or "Citroen" of boats...?

3. What kind of furnace works well? I'm thinking a multi-fuel that can double as an incinerator to burn paper/cardboard/magazines/newspapers etc. However it would seem to make sense to use a diesel furnace as the engines are diesel...
I'd get a diesel furnace or furnaces. he 4788 is a large boar but I don't think there is a good place for a multi fuel unit.

4. Will avoid Whittier. I've received no positive comments on that marina.

5. I have two concerns in relation to boat slips in Seward: What if I find the perfect 45XX/47XX but don't have have a slip to park it in? What if I get lucky and get a slip early, but haven't found the boat to park in it? Is this a fairly common dilemma?
The harbor will find you a slip. I was transient for a whole season and only had to move a couple of times.

6. How well does a 45XX/47XX weather the winter in Alaska? Are there any after-market products I need to purchase, like a "bubbler", block heaters or remote monitor that can be checked via the internet? From what I can tell Seward Marina doesn't turn into a block of ice in the winter and reasonable winterizing of the boat is sufficient. I understand big diesels in a truck, (I ran a 7.3L Navistar Powerstroke diesel in Iceland for three years) but not so sure when it comes to diesels in a boat. I imagine they get cold-soaked being below the water line and must have some special considerations for maintenance in cold climates.
If you are going to be on the boat the only thing you'll winterize is the flying bridge sink. The boat will be warm because you'll keep it heated.

7. Are there any regular get-togethers of BOC folks in Alaska--similar to the trawler rallies you see on the US East Coast?
Nope, but we enjoy happy hour at 5 when we're in the harbor. Come on over!

8. Is there a group that regularly winters south out of Alaska? I know next to nothing about Mexico and would prefer to tag a long with an established group of folks that know what they're doing. I've been overseas in Europe for so long, Mexico seems more like Iraq then our friendly US neighbor to the south. There are lots of cruisers that head south in the winter, then north in the summer. There is also the FUBAR rally every other year if you want some structure and company.

9. When cruising south, is there an issue with firearms on board for that bit of Canadian waters? I grew up in New Hampshire and we always left our firearms at home when visiting our relatives in Canada. Is there some kind of special dispensation for US vessels transiting Canadian waters with firearms on board? I can't imagine sailing without at least a shotgun/large caliber handgun. Human's aren't the top of the food chain in Alaska, and bad people aren't relegated to land. Leave your hand guns at home, or mail them to a gun dealer in a lower 48 state. I've brought a shotgun into Canada and it wasnt an issue but cruising in foreigh countries and firearms don't generally mix well.

10. Are there any glaring questions I should be asking but am so clueless that I didn't know to ask? I'm thick skinned--you won't hurt my feelings and I'd rather identify my ignorance now before I pull the trigger on one of the biggest life changing decisions I've made in my life. You are doing fine. :)

JQ

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KEVIN SANDERS
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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 15 Sep 2014 19:09 #13

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Thanks again everyone for your responses!

A few more questions:

1. Are the Hinos that bad? Are they bad enough that we should only consider a 45XX/47XX with the newer Cummins?

2. What is the Achilles heel(s) of the 45XX/47XX? What should the boat surveyor be telling me and what should I be asking him/her?

3. What modifications/upgrades do you consider to be the most useful to the 45XX/47XX (shortened pulpit)?

4. What modifications do you consider to be a waste of time to the 45XX/47XX? This is important to us as some modifications can be expensive and permanently change the boat's performance.

5. If you could change one thing on your 45XX/47XX what would it be and why?

6. What's the rule on Tenders? I'm thinking as small as possible to ensure flexibility. Is there an argument for a larger, hard-hull alternative?

7. What's the smartest way to make a 45XX/47XX fishing friendly? The overhang on the stern seems to be less than fishing friendly. Any suggestions?

JQ

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Last Edit: by Jollyquick. Reason: Content

Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 16 Sep 2014 00:09 #14

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I own 10 diesels in different things. I would take the Hino over most for boat use. Tough, simple, long life engines. Others may disagree but I think the Cummins may be over powered for the block in marine use.
I have heard of way too many Cummins having short life in marine use.
Having had all size and type of dinghies, I suggest you get a RIB at least 10 feet in length. A 15 hp engine is a good size if you have a heavy load.
That type will allow you to explore safely some distance from your boat. I have tried them all and wouldn't have anything else if I want to carry the dinghy.
I now tow a 16.5 with a 90 hp and would like it to be bigger at times. But we sometimes find ourselves 25 miles from our 38xx at anchor.

Doug

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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 16 Sep 2014 03:07 #15

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Jollyquick wrote: Thanks again everyone for your responses!

A few more questions:

1. Are the Hinos that bad? Are they bad enough that we should only consider a 45XX/47XX with the newer Cummins?
There is nothing wrong with the Hino engine. The only issue is that they do not have as extensive support network as Cummins, and its my understanding that some parts (like the maincooler) might be pretty expensive.

2. What is the Achilles heel(s) of the 45XX/47XX? What should the boat surveyor be telling me and what should I be asking him/her?
The 4788 and I believe the 45' model are well designed boats. There are no issues particular to them that are not common with any boat of that particular age group.
The only known issue is with the 4788 they were over propped from the factory. The Cummins engine is known to have overloading related failures. I've heard but cannot confirm that the Hino is more tolerant to overloading.


3. What modifications/upgrades do you consider to be the most useful to the 45XX/47XX (shortened pulpit)?
No need for a shortened pulpit unless you have a specific length you need to meet. Seward Alaska will put you in a 50' slip with a standard pulpit.
Get a boat with heat or add it. You will need heat up here, even in the summer.
Other than that the standard things like upgraded electronics, skiff, watermaker, all add value.


4. What modifications do you consider to be a waste of time to the 45XX/47XX? This is important to us as some modifications can be expensive and permanently change the boat's performance.

5. If you could change one thing on your 45XX/47XX what would it be and why?

6. What's the rule on Tenders? I'm thinking as small as possible to ensure flexibility. Is there an argument for a larger, hard-hull alternative?
Tenders are a personal choice thing. The davit will lift almost any tender. We have a Zodiac center console RIB. Its a big heavy tender. Lots of tenders out there to choose from.
Most people seem to get a big tender. Occasionally you might want a smaller tender, so just bring a kayak for those times.


7. What's the smartest way to make a 45XX/47XX fishing friendly? The overhang on the stern seems to be less than fishing friendly. Any suggestions?
The 4788 is pretty good for fishing in Alaska, although in my opinion its on the large size for real fishing fun. The hard top makes it nice in the frequent rain.

JQ

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KEVIN SANDERS
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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 16 Sep 2014 14:05 #16

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Seward is great, I spent considerable time there when I lived in south-central from 1991-2011. Great fishing, great scenery, plus you're on the road system and close to services. With those conveniences come people though, and lots of them. Sometimes interaction is great and sometimes it is not. I moved to SE AK in 2011 and wish I'd discovered it 20 years earlier. You won't find better boating or fishing anywhere else, although -depending on the community- services and conveniences can be a challenge. Knowing what I know now, don't discount SE AK it is amazing.

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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 19 Sep 2014 08:03 #17

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Here's what I'm dealing with currently in Juneau. Winter is coming...

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1979 25' Saratoga Mercruiser 350.
1980 26' Explorer. Live aboard. Re-power next year.
Still learning, please excuse my ignorance. Cheers!

Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 20 Sep 2014 15:34 #18

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Jollyquick-

Your new boat is in Seward in slip E-54. We own a 2000 4788 and live aboard in Alaska in the summers. We are going to retire from full-time boating and pursue other things on our "bucket list" in the future. Our boat has spent its life in Alaska, and is well adapted and equipped for Alaska. We plan on putting it up for sale next spring. This is not the place to "advertise" the boat, but if you would like more information you can send me a PM. I have been boating in Alaska for the past 30 years, much of it as a live aboard. I would be happy to reply to any questions you have.

You're heading toward a lot of fun and a great adventure in your retirement. Congratulations!

Will
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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 20 Sep 2014 18:08 #19

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Will in AK wrote: Jollyquick-

Your new boat is in Seward in slip E-54. We own a 2000 4788 and live aboard in Alaska in the summers. We are going to retire from full-time boating and pursue other things on our "bucket list" in the future. Our boat has spent its life in Alaska, and is well adapted and equipped for Alaska. We plan on putting it up for sale next spring. This is not the place to "advertise" the boat, but if you would like more information you can send me a PM. I have been boating in Alaska for the past 30 years, much of it as a live aboard. I would be happy to reply to any questions you have.

You're heading toward a lot of fun and a great adventure in your retirement. Congratulations!

Will


Will

I tried to stop by with the wife and say hello a couple weeks ago and saw that your boat already appeared to be winterized and ready for its annual nap.

Did you know that Dave and Donna sold their 4788 next to mine last month? I saw a guy rooting around, thought it was a mechanic and he came over and introduced himself. Nice guy name is Ralph.

Jollyquick... Will has a very nice looking boat!

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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 21 Sep 2014 13:48 #20

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Kevin-

I winterized a couple of weeks ago before I went caribou hunting. I will be in Seward sometime this week to replace the battery charger for my cranking batteries, and then Denise and I are heading south for the winter. I'll come see you if you are on your boat, otherwise, see you next spring!

Will

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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 27 Sep 2014 09:18 #21

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Greetings all,

We just got back from cruising Route 66 and have been blissfully disconnected from the world for the last two weeks. We test drove a 2015 HD Electra Glide. Loved 66, not sold on the HD however...but that's another topic of discussion entirely!

Will, you'll receive a PM from me shortly. Very interested in discussing the opportunity fully.

JQ

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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 06 Nov 2014 16:08 #22

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Update.

Thanks to some great PMs and responses to this forum post we've submitted the deposit to the Seward Marina and have begun the long waiting process for a 50' slip.

We continue our research on the 4788 and have had a great dialog with Will on their experiences in Alaska with their 4788.

Our next step is to Motorcycle the ALCAN from Vancouver up to Seward and take a serious look at the location (and hopefully a few boats :-)

Current target date is Jul-Aug 2015.

Much appreciated for all the great feedback.

Jollyquick

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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 06 Nov 2014 16:27 #23

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Let me know when you are near Anchorage. We can meet up and i'll shadow you to seward (always looking for someone to ride with)

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Nice weather.... 06 Nov 2014 21:23 #24

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Boatless at this time

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Looking for Alaska BOC Folks 06 Nov 2014 22:24 #25

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If you get a slip not near water you can install an osmosis system, heater a Webasto hot water system, my 3870 uses a 2010 model, I would suggest a DBW 2020 or the DBW 2010 which costs less and supplement some areas with electric when needed. for more capacity but you can contact Shure marine in Seattle and they have installed heaters on many new and used boats.
I agree that the harbor will find you a suitable slip for winter, during the summer there are slips available when the owners are out of the water or on a long trip.
There are some transit slips that have power.
No worry about the harbor freezing, if it does it is not an issue, we also have 2 tides per day that helps the harbor from freezing to thick.
It is a good harbor, I have had a boat in it since 1991, 2 boats for a while,

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Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
Twin 350 GM power
Located in Seward, AK
Retired marine surveyor
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