Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC: Adding 'power-down' to my 45xx windlass?

Adding 'power-down' to my 45xx windlass? 03 Sep 2007 14:51 #1

  • SteveE
  • SteveE's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 921
  • Thank you received: 0
Hi,

I've got an '86 4550 with a Muir Cougar windlass with only power-up (one foot switch on the deck). It's a two wire windlass, I opened it up to make sure, and the Lucas motor inside only has two cable connection posts on it. I know that you can buy "windlass control boxes" that allow you to add power-down to a windlass that originally just had only power-up.

My 1990 3888 had what looked like the identical Muir Cougar windlass but it had three wires not two. The third wire connected directly to the down switch. The two windlasses have the same model number except the one with the power down footswitch had an 'R' at the end, which I assume stands for 'Reverse'.

Does anyone know if adding power-down can damage a Muir Cougar windlass motor, running it in the opposite direction than it was designed to rotate? How about the gearbox?

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.



This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

SteveE
ABYC Certified - Marine Electrical
Dometic SeaLand Certified - VacuFlush & MasterFlush
Skagit Bay Search & Rescue - active member
1986 4550 "Synergy"
La Conner, WA

Adding 'power-down' to my 45xx windlass? 03 Sep 2007 16:09 #2

  • RobertSchommer
  • RobertSchommer's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 870
  • Thank you received: 3
My Cougar has both up and down - I'm sure you can add it without worry over damage to the motor.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Adding 'power-down' to my 45xx windlass? 03 Sep 2007 16:10 #3

  • RobertSchommer
  • RobertSchommer's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 870
  • Thank you received: 3
(You can see both up and down foot switches in my little animated GIF image to the left of my name, above the post).

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Adding 'power-down' to my 45xx windlass? 04 Sep 2007 00:01 #4

  • SteveE
  • SteveE's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 921
  • Thank you received: 0

RobertSchommer;64611 wrote: My Cougar has both up and down - I'm sure you can add it without worry over damage to the motor.


I wonder why the newer Muir Cougar (on my 1990) had 3 wires; a ground, a clockwise positive, and a counter-clockwise positive?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

SteveE
ABYC Certified - Marine Electrical
Dometic SeaLand Certified - VacuFlush & MasterFlush
Skagit Bay Search & Rescue - active member
1986 4550 "Synergy"
La Conner, WA

Adding 'power-down' to my 45xx windlass? 04 Sep 2007 16:17 #5

  • boating777
  • boating777's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 203
  • Thank you received: 3
Steve I am planning on doing the same thing to my 38 as I only have a down pedal. I am over in the South basin in La Conner and I had spoken with Boaters Discount, appears to be a fairly easy thing to do.

Kevin

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1986 3870
Tripleplay

Adding 'power-down' to my 45xx windlass? 28 Sep 2007 13:05 #6

  • SteveE
  • SteveE's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 921
  • Thank you received: 0
As a test I swapped the two windlass cables connections to see if it would run backwards. Much to my surprise it still ran in the same direction as before; power up. I triple checked this by swapping the wires and then running it, three times I swapped wires (pos to neg, neg to pos). Each time it always ran the same direction; power up.

I've never seen a 12vdc motor that runs in the same direction when you swap positive for negative, but then I haven't messed around much with 12vdc motors. Does this make sense?

I was figuring that those windlass control boxes would just be using some relays inside to swap positive for negative when you pressed the down button. If so, then it appears my Cougar can't be made to operate with 'power down' capabilities.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

SteveE
ABYC Certified - Marine Electrical
Dometic SeaLand Certified - VacuFlush & MasterFlush
Skagit Bay Search & Rescue - active member
1986 4550 "Synergy"
La Conner, WA

Adding 'power-down' to my 45xx windlass? 28 Sep 2007 13:37 #7

  • rbmitchell
  • rbmitchell's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 645
  • Thank you received: 3
What you did, Steve, was swap both the field leads and the armature leads at the same time. In the case of the four wire setup, two are for the field and two are for the armature. Reversing either the field or the armature will reverse the motor rotation. Reversing both is a double reverse with no net effect on the motor rotation.

If your motor has a permanent magnet field (no wire to make it work) then reversing the two main leads will reverse the direction. These very high torque, very intermittant use motors need more guts and can't get enough from permanent magnets. At least not at a reasonable cost.

Reversing the direction of the motor will not hurt it.

Make sure your wiring is interlocked, mechanically or electrically, so you can't apply forward and reverse, or up and down, at the same time. It should pop the fuse or breaker but you're playing with pretty big electrical currents here.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Sophomoric Member

Adding 'power-down' to my 45xx windlass? 28 Sep 2007 13:54 #8

  • SteveE
  • SteveE's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 921
  • Thank you received: 0
My motor only has two wires, not 4. When I reversed the only two wires coming out of it, it still ran in the same direction. How would I connect it to make it run in reverse, if swapping positive for negative doesn't do it?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

SteveE
ABYC Certified - Marine Electrical
Dometic SeaLand Certified - VacuFlush & MasterFlush
Skagit Bay Search & Rescue - active member
1986 4550 "Synergy"
La Conner, WA

Adding 'power-down' to my 45xx windlass? 28 Sep 2007 19:07 #9

  • SteveE
  • SteveE's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 921
  • Thank you received: 0
I just called Greg's Marine Electric in Ballard (Seattle) and he said that yes indeed, this windlass motor (Lucas) runs the same direction no matter which way you hook up the power leads. It can be converted to run both directions for a few hundred bucks. It takes some new field coils?, which aren't available anymore and need to be custom made. After he's done it will become a 4-wire motor with two additional studs (for two additional wires) on the motor housing. He also said the Lucas motor is a little on the light side and Muir went to something else later on. He thought that most people when they hear all this usually start looking at buying a new windlass instead....

So, I think I'll be living without power-down for a little longer.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

SteveE
ABYC Certified - Marine Electrical
Dometic SeaLand Certified - VacuFlush & MasterFlush
Skagit Bay Search & Rescue - active member
1986 4550 "Synergy"
La Conner, WA
  • Page:
  • 1
Moderators: higgins_jrJim Gandee
Time to create page: 0.093 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum