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TOPIC: Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way??

Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 25 Aug 2007 16:54 #1

  • TNriver625
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I just discovered something on my 3388 that really seems odd. I have a battery dedicated to engine starting and another dedicated to “house” loads. I was looking at the Bayliner supplied wiring diagram and noticed that all of the engine electrical functions, other than powering the starters, are served by the house battery. This includes the starter solenoids!! I suspect that this configuration is typical for all sizes of Bayliner MY’s and not unique to the 3388.

So, if the house battery goes down, you can’t start the engines, even if your starter battery is fully charged! That is unless, of course, you manually jump the house battery from the starting battery to power up the solenoid circuit. This seems very odd and rather dumb.

I am contemplating rewiring possibly ALL the engine electrical systems to be served by the starter battery instead of the house battery, and AT THE VERY LEAST the solenoid circuit. Before I do that, I am posting this issue/modification for BOC member comment and advice.

As always, I appreciate your very helpful thoughts, suggestions and expertise.

Cheers,
Jack O’Hearn, Ship’s Engineer, etc, etc.
Yorkie Yot
3388 Cummins 4BT3.9M 150’s

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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 25 Aug 2007 17:03 #2

  • Go Aweigh2452
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You should be able to start with #1 if #2 is dead by selecting #1 on the battery switch. I'd keep the wiring as is. You may need to use #2 some day if #1 fails to start the motor...

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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 25 Aug 2007 19:28 #3

  • TNriver625
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Thanks Doug,

Unfortunately, as I see it, my battery switches are either on/off - not 1 to 2 or 2 to 1 as I understand you to say. I have one switch to kill power to my engine starters and 1 switch to kill power to my DC panel and on to the lights, etc. No cross connect between those two systems at all unless I jump at the battery.

That's part of why my factory system seems so "dumb".

It's nice to keep the engines off of the house system as the house system is subject to being drained - but seems like it ought to be a 100% separation not just the starters and NOT the starter solenoids and other engine significant systems like the fuel supply on/off solenoid.

Weird, isn't it? Or am I missing some sort of safety (for instance) related logic.

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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 25 Aug 2007 19:34 #4

  • whiskywizard
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All the 32xx and 38xx Bayliner motoryachts are as you describe, with one exception - they have a battery switch that ties the two batteries/systems together. The concept is simple - no matter what loads you leave on to kill the house bank, you have cranking power to get yourself running and out of harm's way. Once running, you're charging too. That is, if you can tie the dead bank into the charged bank.

I think all you need to do is add either an ACR or a battery switch to connect the 2.

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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 25 Aug 2007 20:05 #5

  • TNriver625
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Thanks, Mike!

What you describe makes eminent sense but as I perceive my systems, there is not a built in cross connection between batteries on the 3388, as one would expect. My main heavy-duty-type switches are on/off things only, nothing to connect/disconnect the start and house batteries. As an aside, when I bought the boat I expected to find such a switch but there is none to be found.

Yes, perhaps adding another heavy-duty switch to connect the two is the easy answer. Still, it baffles me why the original design separates the battery power serving the starting and stopping solenoids from that serving the starting motors.

You are obviously a knowledgeable guy regarding Bayliner MY's. What's your take on the rationale for the design of this aspect of the 3388's electrical system? I see no rationale here but could be mistaken.

Cheers, Jack

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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 25 Aug 2007 20:39 #6

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Here's my guess (just a guess) - if things go normally on the water, the average boater would never even notice, let alone care, that the combiner switch is missing.
Bayliner yacht division always seemed to know where to cut and where to maintain high quality. For example, you've noticed the switch is missing but you've probably noticed by now that the rest of the wiring and switchgear is as good as any other production boat. That seems to be BL's way to keep costs under control.
Here's what I'd add for $135 from West Marine

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This allows you to combine when required, and combines automatically for charging. Don't worry about the 2 alternators "fighting". They know how to get along. ;-)

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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 25 Aug 2007 23:28 #7

  • mmichellich
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If you just wanted easy emergency starting in case one bank of batteries went dead it would be real easy to add an on/off switch between the two exisitng on off switches you currently have. I checked out the owners manual for a 2006 3388 and you are right there is no cross over switch. You will need the switch (similar to the ones you already have installed) and two battery cables of whatever length for your installation of approporiate gauge for the starting motors. I would guess about $60 in materials tops to add some reserve emergency start capacity built in. Of course a jumper cable would also do the trick.

Another alternative would be to mount an older starter relay/solenoid and a remote switch (powered by your house battery) to tie the two switches together temporarily. I did that to an old Bayliner I had and I could just push a button on the dash to to temporarily tie the two banks of batteries together. Again around $50 worth of parts.

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Started boating 1965
Bayliners owned: 26 Victoria, 28 Bounty, 32, 38, and 47 since 1996

Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 26 Aug 2007 15:38 #8

  • rodell
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My '01 3488 has a "Battery Parallel" switch. This provides the relay connection between the two when needed.

I wonder if that was planned / wired for the 3488 but was an "option"?

Bob
Smiles / Hour

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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 26 Aug 2007 17:00 #9

  • 2850Bounty
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My suggestion is to use caution if changing things around from what B/L did (unless a PO has messed things up).

Your Stbd engine main harness is also what supplies your hull's "House Loads" on many of these boats. (The cabin circuit receives it's supply from this harness..... minus any dedicated Electronics circuit that may have been added!)
A MBSS (main battery selector switch) provides the ability to "Select" on other more standard configurations.
With some sort of MBSS, you can "Select" which bank the Stbd engine can be started from..... Or, which Stbd engine "bank" can provide House Power..... of course, a larger Deep Cycle bank of batteries. (many of us also Crank on this bank and w/ no harm, if you have an engine that starts easily.)

I like what Mike suggests, but if you can change one of the On/Off switches to a MBSS, it may also solve your problem.
Or change them both to a MBSS type.


**Stbd engine using a 1/2/BOTH scenario........ Cranking battery on # 1, House Bank on # 2.
**Port engine using a 1/2/BOTH scenario........ A good cranking battery on #1 .........Terminal # 2 can be made to "Combine" if done correctly and clearly noted in your "instruction cheat sheet".

**Two days on the hook, you switch Stbd back to # 1 (Stbd cranking RESERVE) and crank the engine.



That combiner switch is great also.

Just remember, if you start taking starter motors out of the loop, you complicate other systems, such as an Ignition Ciruit, Engine Instruments and alternator charging, etc.


.

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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 26 Aug 2007 18:36 #10

  • Uncle Bob
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Have you swithched the house battery switch off and tried the starter? I'd do that before changing anything.

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1989 26' then 1994 32' now 2001 39'

Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 31 Aug 2007 02:55 #11

  • skbay33
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If you haven't tried it already by now, I would try turning off the house battery switch and see if the engines start before attempting any rewiring. I recently purchased a 1996 3388 with the Hino 210's and it has only two on/off battery switches, as you described. On my first long outing I managed to kill the house batterry bank after 2-1/2 days at anchor. I do mean kill - the house bank metered 1.8 volts! Anyway, the starting battery was still at 13 volts and the engines started just fine. I didn't get the Bayliner manual with the boat, so can't verify it's wired the same as yours, but it sure appears to be two totally separate systems.

Stu
Dream Chaser

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DREAMCHASER
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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 01 Sep 2007 19:44 #12

  • TNriver625
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I exchanged the sick battery while it was still under full warranty (thumbs up to Sears Die-Hard) - with the new battery, had no problems last night/this morning with a dead house battery and the engines fired right up.

My 3388 is also a '96 version but with Cummins not Hinos. Maybe the wiring is different but I doubt it. In my owner's manual, it's crystal clear how the engines are wired - starter motors on the start battery and ALL other engine electricals on the house battery.

I'll probably go back down to the marina again this long weekend and I'll switch off the house battery and see if my engines will start. Cant see how that will work but I've been surprised before and it's easy enough to try.

Thanks

Jack Yorkie Yot '96 3388 on the Tennessee river

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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 07 Sep 2007 02:20 #13

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Well I did try to start the engines after turning off the main switch in the engine compartment that cuts off the House battery from the DC main panel in the salon. Upon turning on the keyed starter switch absolutely nothing happened - no solenoid pulled and, no starter turned. I expected this after having studied the Bayliner Owner's manual and its wiring schematic.

After all of this I still wonder what possessed Bayliner to wire it this way, makes no sense to me. My engines need 100% functionality of 2 batteries to start whereas relying on just one battery would have a lower probability of failure. Never was good at statistics but one of you boating rocket-stars could probably estimate it. Love to know what it might be.

Jim Yorkie Yot
'96 3388

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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 07 Sep 2007 15:46 #14

  • 2850Bounty
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Firstly, do what ever you can to avoid allowing any of your batteries to become anywhere near 50% discharged or to remain discharged for any length of time. This is what kills batteries of any sort.

Secondly, what I suggested earlier may work for you providing your cranking bank includes the necessary two batteries for starting a diesel engine.
That being said...... first make sure that one (most likely the Stbd side) of the engine's main harness is indeed providing the House Load power. On some of the larger boats, this is taken out of the loop..... and the House Loads have been separated. This may be what you have! Not sure without seeing a schematic.

You may have a momentary solenoid system that brings the cranking bank into play during cranking only on a diesel scenario.
Again, I would not know without seeing a schematic.

Can you post a schematic?

.

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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 08 Sep 2007 17:49 #15

  • TNriver625
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Thanks for your continued assistance.

I will see if can scan the wiring schematic and post it here as a tif or pdf file.

In the case of my 3388 with 4 cyl Cummins 3.9L diesels @ 150 HP each, there is only one single starting battery which seems to be quite ample at least in the Tennessee climate. I have 3 batteries aboard, one for the engine starter motors, one for the house and one to spin my Westerbeke generator's stater motor.

Will be back with the scanned schematic once I get 'r done

Cheers,
Jack Yorkie Yot Tennessee River mile 625

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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 28 Sep 2007 01:33 #16

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I finally was able to scan my owner's manual and now have a pdf (adobe acrobat) format file of the wiring diagram, as asked for previously.

Can someone let me know how to make this file available to members of BOC. I'm assuming it wouldn't be cool with the Tinypic thing as described by our moderator.

Still baffled by Bayliner's design - wish someone knowledgeable (once) in that organization would reply.

Also , I 'd be happy to post the entire owners manual for a '96 3388 but on my own web page like I just saw for a larger hull (3870? 3780? or whatever). Need suggestions there as how best to do it.

Cheers Jack
Yorkie Yot 3388

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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 28 Sep 2007 05:16 #17

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You didn't mention it but if you have a generator and a battery to start it, if all else failed, start the genny and your battery charger will give you enough voltage to energize the starting solenoid.
My motorhome is wired almost like your boat. All gauges, everything except actual starting runs from the house battery.
Except the solenoid for starting is on the starting battery.
But where are you if the starting battery fails.
Exactly the same place you would be if the house battery fails as you now have.
Except the house would have to be a complete failure to not have enough energy to energize the starting solenoid.
The safety thing in the motorhome is the battery combiner which charges the house battery when the engine is running.
That is a simple continous duty solenoid which combines the batteries (house and start) for charging.
If the starting battery fails, there is a switch that energizes the solenoid and jumps the two banks just as it would if the engine were running.
So, if you don't want to add a battery switch to combind your banks, a simple solenoid like a starting solenoid will do it.
Doug

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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 29 Sep 2007 16:05 #18

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Took me a while to get my manual scanned. Assuming success here, uploading files on this new board is a piece of cake.

Thanks for the tips concerning the motor home system. Some good ideas there. Yes, I have used my genset to charge the house battery so I could engage the main engines solenoids and crank them. I sure like the peace of mind that the genset provides in this regard.

Still wondering why Bayliner chose to wire my 3388 this way - any other opinions or knowledge why?

Jack, Yorkie Yot '96 3388
Port of Knoxville

Attached files 3388 wiring diagram.pdf (88.4 KB)

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Why is my Bayliner wired this crazy way?? 29 Sep 2007 17:25 #19

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TNriver625;62214 wrote: I just discovered something on my 3388 that really seems odd. I have a battery dedicated to engine starting and another dedicated to “house” loads. I was looking at the Bayliner supplied wiring diagram and noticed that all of the engine electrical functions, other than powering the starters, are served by the house battery. This includes the starter solenoids!! I suspect that this configuration is typical for all sizes of Bayliner MY’s and not unique to the 3388.

So, if the house battery goes down, you can’t start the engines, even if your starter battery is fully charged! That is unless, of course, you manually jump the house battery from the starting battery to power up the solenoid circuit. This seems very odd and rather dumb.

I am contemplating rewiring possibly ALL the engine electrical systems to be served by the starter battery instead of the house battery, and AT THE VERY LEAST the solenoid circuit. Before I do that, I am posting this issue/modification for BOC member comment and advice.

As always, I appreciate your very helpful thoughts, suggestions and expertise.

Cheers,
Jack O’Hearn, Ship’s Engineer, etc, etc.
Yorkie Yot
3388 Cummins 4BT3.9M 150’s


Looks like the schematic is the same for 1994/95 3288s. That's the only ones I have looked at so far. I'll bet it's the same for all of the 32XX. From the Bayliner standpoint, all the boats are the same. Consistancy is really great for manufacturing and trouble shooting. Bayliners approach is the way it's wired should work. It does, and in my opinion a good design for all those years the 32XX was produced.

The Accessory battery monitor is isolated to the accessory battery. This gives the operator the ability to monitor the accessory battery. Another point is the engine and accessory MBSS has to be engaged to start the engines. This ensures a battery is connected to the alternator of the starboard engine. If you do rewire your boat, you may want to consider this point.

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