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TOPIC: Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way

Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 24 Jul 2017 23:53 #1

  • Chuck Wagon
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Probably the most costly error so far for me. My engine starting smoking then a knocking sound and that's all she wrote. I was cruising at 3800 rpm. Is my motor history or can this be repaired? If not, has anyone had experience with a reconditioned/re- manufactured replacement?
Thanks In advance,
Chuck

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1999 Bayliner Ciera 2655
5.7 Liter Bravo III

Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 01:02 #2

  • SomeSailor
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Well... Your motor seized from you not seeing the overtemp. How long did you operate it that way? You could have no damage at all. As the motor overheats it will start to detonate and on an MPI boat would fault out. It sounds like you missed the overheat, but did you get an alarm?

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Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 01:27 #3

  • builderdude
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I'm with Mike, there was no alarm? Is this a caburated motor or an mpi?

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
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www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 02:09 #4

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There was no alarm and it is a carburetor. I was running at that speed for about 15 minutes. Once it cut out I couldn't start it again and it wouldn't even crank. Running at 3800 rpm with no water getting into the engine for that period of time wouldn't that be enough for the engine to seize up? When I opened the engine hatch I saw smoke coming from the risers.

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1999 Bayliner Ciera 2655
5.7 Liter Bravo III

Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 02:52 #5

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Got hot enough to quit, it's likely toast, sorry dude :(

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 03:09 #6

  • Chuck Wagon
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I also believe that. Getting back to the original question any thoughts on a re-manufactured or rebuilt?

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1999 Bayliner Ciera 2655
5.7 Liter Bravo III

Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 04:21 #7

  • builderdude
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Michigan motorz.
www.michiganmotorz.com/marine-engines-c-31.html
No personal experience but many on this site have.

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556
Last Edit: by builderdude.

Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 06:02 #8

  • Pcpete
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If you might have mechanical coverage on your insurance you should be talking to your agent. Be sure you get a marine engine long block not one where somebody tries to tell you they are all about the same. It's like the difference between a daily driver and a pro stock dragster. Always putting out lots of power and little loafing.

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P/C Pete
Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
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Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 10:54 #9

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No mechanical coverage just liability. Does anyone know what the ball park figure would be to replace this motor?

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1999 Bayliner Ciera 2655
5.7 Liter Bravo III

Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 13:37 #10

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Chuck Wagon wrote: I also believe that. Getting back to the original question any thoughts on a re-manufactured or rebuilt?


First and foremost...... I am sorry to hear that your engine over-heated.
You will not know the full extent of damage until it has been disassembled so that the components can be closely examined!

As for a new or replacement engine, I will suggest that this is your opportunity to build a more True SBC Marine Engine.
By that I mean building a SBC for Marine use by using the correct piston profile.... and NOT the pistons that GM and most re-builders use. :evil:
This involves using a Q/E style piston and requires only minor changes to the build technique.
The benefits will out-weigh the small added cost to do so.

Another option would be to build a 6.3L SBC (aka the 383 cu in and/or what some people call the "stroker" engine) using the same build technique...... and NOT the pistons that GM and most re-builders use.
Here is a BOC thread re; this subject from back in April of this year.

www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...cs/80958-383-stroker


.

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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
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Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 15:22 #11

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In 35 years of auto repair can't say I've ever seen one run, after quitting from overheating. Now air cooled lawn mower, yeah maybe.

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Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 15:44 #12

  • Chief Alen
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Michigan motorz new complete or a long block .

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Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

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Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 16:00 #13

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Chuck Wagon wrote: No mechanical coverage just liability. Does anyone know what the ball park figure would be to replace this motor?

An engine from Michigan will cost 2500 for a remanufactured and you'd swap many parts (if they're usable) over from the old engine. A complete "turn key" will cost around 8-9k then whatever the labor cost is in you area. As Rick pointed out, improvements can be made to the engine.

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Dave
Edmonds, WA
"THE FIX"
'93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled
***The rebuild of my 2556***
www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/for...ansom-repair-my-2556

Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 17:20 #14

  • watchthis
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On a prior boat, I had my 350 "remanufactured" by S&J Engines in Spokane. You can also simply send them your long block after you remove the "tin" as a core and receive one of theirs back in exchange. You can also direct them as to what cam and pistons you want used. As stated above, you get back a long block, and you then reuse whatever you wish from your current bolt ons and tin. They charged me $2300 including shipping. I know the current owner and it runs fine after 4 years.

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Johnson Point, Olympia, WA
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Horizon 6.2 and Bravo II

Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 17:37 #15

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no one is suggesting him to put a truck engine? :whistle:

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Joon, Kathy, Jaden & Tristan
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Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 17:41 #16

  • Pcpete
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Plus one with bounty. Getting a true marine build makes a huge difference. When you are talking to builders ask lots of questions. Flat tappet cam or roller and what's the cost difference, needle bearing rockers or standard and the cost difference. These may sound like fancy parts but many of the production cars now have roller cams. Get a quote in writing.

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P/C Pete
Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
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1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
MMSI 367770440
1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948

Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 21:28 #17

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Pcpete wrote: Plus one with bounty. Getting a true marine build makes a huge difference. When you are talking to builders ask lots of questions. Flat tappet cam or roller and what's the cost difference, needle bearing rockers or standard and the cost difference. These may sound like fancy parts but many of the production cars now have roller cams. Get a quote in writing.


Well, my point was regarding piston profile. The GM Full Dished piston is a lousy choice for the Marine SBC.

And yes...... ask many questions of your re-builder. If the re-builder gives you that "Deer-in-the-heads-light-look" when you mention Quench Effect style combustion chamber.........., find another shop! (you should NOT need to explain to them what this means!)





.

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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
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Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 25 Jul 2017 22:04 #18

  • Victoria2750
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I can recommend Rapido Marine for a replacement engine. They stand behind their engines. No third party warranties! Shipping cost from Florida to Colorado was about $180. A first class marine rebuild! If I ever needed another engine, they are the ones I'll go to!

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Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 26 Jul 2017 00:00 #19

  • Chuck Wagon
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I went back to my boat today to see if would crank over. Much to my surprise it did. However I had the thermostat housing and all four hoses off. When I turn the ignition, water started coming out of the hoses while it was cranking. I'm no expert but if the engine seized would I have no cranking at all ? I couldn't reinstall the housing due to darkness but at first daylight I'll hook it all up and see if it starts.If it does start what possible internal damage could have occurred? As I said when I opened this thread I was running at 3800 RPM's for a solid 15 minutes when I heard the knocking and ticking sound followed by the engine shutting down. When I opened the engine hatch smoke was coming from the port riser.

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1999 Bayliner Ciera 2655
5.7 Liter Bravo III

Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 26 Jul 2017 00:11 #20

  • businessgetmoney
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Warped crakced heads, will leak water into pistons, will thin oil, will make engine go boom.

If you got something to work with, start there dont make it worse. If you dont have a salvagable block and heads, then thats another 800-1000 in costs to you. Theres no way around pulling the engine. It will need something done, best just a freshup build maybe $1k? Otherwise rebuild 1500-2500 depending on who does it and what can be saved..


Dont make it worse tho thats my advice. Dont fork over a cent to any builder without a spec sheet of build. Dont go to a auto performance engine builder... ive talked to probably 20 different shops that deal with auto and claim to know marine and know nothing at all!!

Michigan motors is top notch, bigger the builder, stronger the warranty.

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Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 26 Jul 2017 01:21 #21

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Have a professional look at it.

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Wet'ever
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Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 26 Jul 2017 13:10 #22

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Chuck Wagon wrote: I went back to my boat today to see if would crank over. Much to my surprise it did. However I had the thermostat housing and all four hoses off. When I turn the ignition, water started coming out of the hoses while it was cranking. I'm no expert but if the engine seized would I have no cranking at all ? I couldn't reinstall the housing due to darkness but at first daylight I'll hook it all up and see if it starts.If it does start what possible internal damage could have occurred? As I said when I opened this thread I was running at 3800 RPM for a solid 15 minutes when I heard the knocking and ticking sound followed by the engine shutting down. When I opened the engine hatch smoke was coming from the port elbow.


Chuck Wagon, please do not get your hopes up via this recent cranking.
From what we read (I've put it into bold text above), your engine has suffered damage........ and damage that will not heal from sitting a day or two!


For those of you who are recommending engine re-builders.... that's great, but first ask the re-builder a few very simple questions:

a...... would you recommend using the GM style Full Dished pistons?
b...... would you recommend using a quench style piston along with a .038" quench dimension?
c...... which pistons would you use with the SBC Vortec cylinder heads?
d...... which pistons would you use with the SBC pre-Vortec cylinder heads?
e...... will you index the harmonic balancer TDC marking to read "dead on" #1 TDC?


How these questions are answered will tell you whether or not they can build a TRUE SBC Marine Engine.





Correct answers should be:
a..... NO
b..... Yes
c..... a LCQ style w/ a correct dish volume
d..... a Reverse Dome w/ a correct dish volume
e..... Yes



And by the way........ a good automotive machine shop, or re-builder, should be able to build a SBC suited for Marine Cruiser use. They simply need to be on-board with the subtle differences.
Most any shop will build to your specs.

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Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 27 Jul 2017 01:00 #23

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Thanks for all the input everyone provided. My mechanic will check it out next week and give his professional diagnosis. In my opinion this is a 17 year old engine that's been in saltwater all its life I'm definitely leaning to a new or rebuilt.
Thanks Again,
Chuck

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1999 Bayliner Ciera 2655
5.7 Liter Bravo III

Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 27 Jul 2017 04:05 #24

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If you plan to keep the boat for a long time, then and only then, consider new. Just because of cost. You can get a drop in, align, connect hoses and wire harness with your options like full or partial closed cooling and relocated oil filter. You will get the advantages of the newer technology and, if you opt, direct fuel injection. I did that when I repowered my previous boat when it was twenty years old. We kept the boat another fifteen years with only minor issues starting in the last three of thos years, and I feel like I got a good return on my investment.
However, if you are thinking, or have a vision of having a different boat or recreation, go with a very proper rebuild. Having closed cooling, full or partial, is well worth the investment in my experience. The oil filter relocation kit putting it at the front port corner of the motor is a worthy option. Have your current manifolds and risers checked out, maybe have the starter rebuilt and put on a new coolant waterpump. Transferring the pans, valve covers, intake manifold, distributor, fuel pump, etc is just nuts and bolts but can add significantly if you are paying a c-note an hour. If your current engine doesn't have a hose attached to or in place of the oil pan drain plug, get that. I made an adapter to my oil change pump and found I could get about 99% of the oil out of the pan. Were it me I'd also have the carb rebuilt by a performance car carb shop like Carb Connection in Kirkland, WA. And install all new hoses, sending units and sensors? All this is going to give you the best shot at having a trouble free motor for a lot of years.
As you are deciding which way to go, get a strong cost estimate of the total rebuild ready to drop in the boat and add 15% for unknown unknowns and add that to your total cost of the rebuild, and 8-10% for the total new engine, manifolds, etc. chances are that's closer to the check you are going to write for that part of things.
Compare the numbers and timelines as you make your final plan. I apologize, I spent too many years doing manufacturing and procurement cost analysis and estimating and I've done a bit of reverting to type, but I like people to make the most informed decisions they can based on all the information they should have.
Obviously there are a bunch of us offering the best advice for what you are paying. ?

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P/C Pete
Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
1988 3818 "GLAUBEN"
1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
MMSI 367770440
1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948
Last Edit: by Pcpete.

Motor seized from installing the thermostat the wrong way 27 Jul 2017 11:13 #25

  • Chuck Wagon
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Thank you for your input, knowledge and suggestions. I plan to upgrade in 2-3 years(28-30ft) so a rebuilt will be the way to go. I feel very guilty for my big mistake. Live and learn. This boat has given me nothing but trouble free service over the years and I'm a firm believer of preventative maintenance especially for boats.
Thanks Again,
Chuck

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1999 Bayliner Ciera 2655
5.7 Liter Bravo III
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