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TOPIC: merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize

merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 20 Nov 2016 22:30 #1

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what is the best way to winterize a mercrusier 3.0 any manual out there with the correct proceduce

Thanks

Mark

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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 21 Nov 2016 01:19 #2

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Put stabilizer in your tank
Start engine, warm up
Drain oil and fill with fresh, change filter
Change fuel/water separator
Drain the block
Fill with RV antifreeze
Fog the cylinders
Change out gear lube if necessary. When is the last time it was done? Impeller?
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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 21 Nov 2016 09:13 #3

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Place the drive fully down, on a trailer raise the trailer bow pull the bilge plug.You may have to place a few pieces of flat wood under the trailer tires. Again the drive must be fully down.

Look under the manifold port side, see a drain plug, under the mani on the block about 6 -12 inch's further down is a drain plug for the block.

Pull both and keep poking the holes with a stiff wire ( little flags that lawn co's use are perfect for this ) you want to make sure the block and mani drains, keep poking the holes.

Now your done air don't freeze.

If you want you can hook up muffs to the drive turn on the water, and start the engine, and then pull the fuel hose off the tank and allow the carb to run dry, that's what i did, then follow the rest of the procedure outlined above.
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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 22 Nov 2016 15:12 #4

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Please purchase an OEM service manual, and follow their procedure!

As a Suppliment ONLY to the OEM procedure:

Put stabilizer in your tank ........ and find a way to allow it to mix with the existing fuel.

Change fuel/water separator ...... and pre-fill the cartridge (with stabilized fuel) if engine was not started prior!

Start engine, warm up ...... this will bring the stabililzed fuel mixture into the entire fuel delivery system. This may also require up to 15 minutes run-time.

Drain oil and fill with fresh, change filter

Drain the block

Fill with RV antifreeze .......... please educate yourself on this one!

Fog the cylinders ....... true engine Fogging (carbureted engines) is a dynamic process.

Change out gear lube if necessary. When is the last time it was done?

Impeller? ......... it is best to wait until Re-Commissioning to install a new seawater pump impeller!



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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 22 Nov 2016 15:42 #5

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2850Bounty wrote:

Fill with RV antifreeze .......... please educate yourself on this one!

Fog the cylinders ....... true engine Fogging (carbureted engines) is a dynamic process.

.


These I think are the most controversial things in the entire process. I called every dealer in my area and they all told me they drain the block and pour -50% antifreeze down the hoses attached to the Thermostat housing and leave it in for season. I personally believe in the air does not freeze theory. I also asked about fogging an ALL fog every engine Carb or Fuel injected. They pour or spray oil down the throat or the carb or throttle body.
So do some research of you own and see what dealers do. Ask them to explain the process they do.

But when I had a 3.0 I would drain the block via a two hose system off the back of the block and then remove the lower hose off the water pump that ensure me I got all the water out.
Had it for 13 years doing it that way every year and never added anti-freeze and never had a problem.
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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 22 Nov 2016 18:35 #6

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Waterdowg wrote:

2850Bounty wrote:

Fill with RV antifreeze .......... please educate yourself on this one!

Fog the cylinders ....... true engine Fogging (carbureted engines) is a dynamic process.

.


These I think are the most controversial things in the entire process. I called every dealer in my area and they all told me they drain the block and pour -50% antifreeze down the hoses attached to the Thermostat housing and leave it in for season. I personally believe in the air does not freeze theory.
This does work..... but one mistake caused by anti-freeze dilution, and they may find themselves not only buying but also installing a new engine come spring time!

I also asked about fogging an ALL fog every engine Carb or Fuel injected. They pour or spray oil down the throat or the carb or throttle body.
This would be a shop to avoid.
Most all true Marine Mechanics know full well that we DO NOT introduce fogging oil into the throat of TBI or MPI systems.
Fogging in it's true sense is a dynamic process for carburetred engines only!
And when performed correctly, the ignition system is cut while the fogging process is continued.


So do some research of you own and see what dealers do. Ask them to explain the process they do.
That may be a very good way to see which dealers understand what is correct or not!

But when I had a 3.0 I would drain the block via a two hose system off the back of the block and then remove the lower hose off the water pump that ensure me I got all the water out.
Had it for 13 years doing it that way every year and never added anti-freeze and never had a problem.

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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 22 Nov 2016 19:10 #7

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I checked will all shops in my area as I was getting quotes on winterization and they all fogg ALL engines. Most of them are Mercury authorized dealers. Over 15 shops I call and everyone has the same process.
Fuel additive
Fogg engine
Drain block
Pour in Anti-freeze and leave it.

The cost ranged from 130 - 200 depending on how close they were to the lake and what town they were in.
Like I said there seems to be very much debate on how this is done.

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1970 Salem Skiff 13.5 foot
1992 Johnson 40HP.

merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 23 Nov 2016 01:58 #8

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Maybe we should begin with a clear definition of:

a… Fogging for cylinder wall and valve protection...... carbureted engines.


b… Oil enriched fuel mixture introduction for cylinder wall and valve protection..... EFI engines.

These are two entirely different procedures .

We can fog a carbureted engine and not risk air sensor contamination.

If attempting to fog an engine equipped with EFI, the small air sensor circuits can become contaminated with the solution, later requiring special disassembly to correct the problem.

A bit more clarity:

a… Fogging occurs dynamically........ i.e., engine must be operating.
This takes place at just above idle speeds.......... 1,200 RPM or so and can be done within 10 seconds or so!
This dynamically introduces an oily protective substance into the intake system, down the intake runners, through the intake valves, and into the cylinders.
Fogging is NOT pulling spark plugs and spraying into cylinders!!!!!!
With most any V engine, the fogging solution must be introduced equally into each primary throttle bore and each intake manifold plane.
If we miss one plane, we miss 1/2 of the engine's cylinders. (not mentioned in most service manuals) :whistle:
A helper will CUT the Ignition while the fogging continues until the rotating assembly comes to rest.
This avoids fogging oil combustion during the last several revolutions (again, not mentioned in most service manuals) :whistle:

b… Oil enriched fuel mixture for EFI.
This is done in lieu of Fogging when Fogging cannot be used.
Typically the fuel filter cartridge is removed. The existing fuel is removed, or a new cartridge is used.
In either event, an oil enriched fuel mixture (see your OEM service manual) is added to the cartridge and is re-installed.
The engine is started, and the process begins.
As the oil enriched mixture enters the fuel system, the theory is that this adds protection. .



As for adding antifreeze… I would like to see where the Mercruiser OEM manual specifies doing this, as per the previous post!
Previous post mentions leaving the antifreeze in... as in not draining again afterwards!








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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 23 Nov 2016 03:02 #9

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I never said the Mercury manual says to pour in anti-freeze. I only passed along what every shop in my area does and they all pour in anti-freezevery and leave it in.
As for the fogging they all sprayed it in. I asked 2 shops about oil induced fuel and they had never heard of that. The shop even chucked.
So there seems to be a very different ways to do to this. I figured I would check with the the shops and see what they did. If they all do the same thing. Then they all can't be wrong. I don't know, I only know what I read on hear and have been told by local shops. I will be contacting Mercury after the holidays and see if they can shed some light on this for me.

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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 23 Nov 2016 07:31 #10

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The only thing I can do is post what I do.

Seems to be ok, only doing it for 50 years, hey what do I know, after all this is the internet, don't believe everything you read.

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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 23 Nov 2016 10:02 #11

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The step of adding antifreeze for corrosion protection is in many Merc factory manuals people have posted up on the 'net. And its in my 1988 OMC factory shop manual same thing. Now if someone could actually measure how much corrosion protection it provides, that would be great. Of course operating conditions are so different from place to place its most likely impossible to generalize. These engines were designed by GM to have antifreeze in them unlike an outboard that was designed for raw water cooling. But no one knows if filling with A/F for winter storage really helps. I did it for 14 seasons worth and now have a head gasket repair or rusted through head to investigate. When I take the engine apart, I'll post up pics so you can see what it looks like in the cooling passages. I can say there is no flaking rust inside the intake manifold that I can see having just taken off the carb, thermo housing, etc.

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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 23 Nov 2016 12:19 #12

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2850Bounty wrote: As for adding antifreeze… I would like to see where the Mercruiser OEM manual specifies doing this, as per the previous post!.


I have the OEM manual, and it does say to do this

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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 23 Nov 2016 17:09 #13

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Waterdowg, I am in your corner. I have no dog in any fight here.
I simply want to see that all members (including YOU) use safe and proper winterizing procedures, and don't end up with compromised Cast Iron come spring time.
(we see this each and every spring time!!!)

I've been doing mechanical work since the mid 60s. I spent 24 years doing Volvo Penta AQ series repair!
I have see the freeze damage that could have so easily been avoided had some "smarts" been used!


Waterdowg wrote: I never said the Mercury manual says to pour in anti-freeze. I only passed along what every shop in my area does and they all pour in anti-freezevery and leave it in.
Does the manual or does the manual NOT suggest using Anti-Freeze, and if so, does it suggest leaving it IN?
Are these mechanics following Merc's instructions?


As for the fogging they all sprayed it in.
Question: Using my a and b explanation in post #7, are you saying that these guys are Fogging EFI engines????


I asked 2 shops about oil induced fuel and they had never heard of that. The shop even chucked.

I said Oil Enriched fuel mixture!
When done correctly, it somewhat takes the place of conventional "Fogging" that should NOT be done to EFI Engines.
Often this can be done right within the fuel filter cartridge. This enriched fuel mixture helps protect the fuel delivery system components.


So there seems to be a very different ways to do to this.
As the furier dealer says; "there is always more than one way to skin a cat....... but some cat skinners will sell you a better pelt!"

In other words........ while there may be several methods that will work, one is typically better than the other.
I would think that the Mercury Marine Corp engineers gave this some good thought. :whistle:
I would also hope that the Merc Dealers demand that their mechanics follow Merc's instructions.

I figured I would check with the the shops and see what they did. If they all do the same thing. Then they all can't be wrong.
Again..... using my a and b explanation in post #7, unless the industry has recently changed protocol, we DO NOT FOG EFI systems!
If 2 or 3 or 4 shops are going against Merc...... how could you believe that they are anything but Wrong?

(Now...... there is a way to do this, but that is another topic for another day)


I don't know, I only know what I read on hear and have been told by local shops. I will be contacting Mercury after the holidays and see if they can shed some light on this for me.
Please do!
Also be sure to write down the first/last name of the technician of whom you spoke with.
When I have done similar in the past, I will call back, and ask the same question of another Technician.




In my opinion, your local shops are either mistaken, or are not up to speed. It's that simple!

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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 24 Nov 2016 14:37 #14

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There are many topics that cause debate.

What spark plugs are best
What oil is better
Stainless vs. Aluminum prop
What brand oil filter
RV Antifreeze, yes or no?
Fog, yes, no.

The key is to winterize your engine. And that you are doing. If you go the RV Antifreeze way or not is personal choice. Same with Fogging. Don't allow the debate to stop you from doing what you are comfortable with. And if you have a professional do it, it will add that layer of protection that if they do it wrong and damage does occur (in the unlikely event) you have some recourse.

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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 24 Nov 2016 16:24 #15

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Bounty,
Can you give detailed directions on the Oil Enriched feel process. I would also like to know more on what this does compared to the conventional fogging process.
I curious how they are differnet.

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2003 SeaRay 176 SRX Bowrider
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Evinrude 88 Special

1970 Salem Skiff 13.5 foot
1992 Johnson 40HP.

merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 24 Nov 2016 17:33 #16

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Seriously this is such an easy engine to winterize, and maintain in general I'd buy a Merc Factory shop manual (like I did with my OMC 15 years ago) and learn how to do it yourself.
Internet advice can be good, but IMHO there is no substitute for the factory manual. If you are going to keep the boat for some time it will pay for itself many times over.

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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 25 Nov 2016 15:29 #17

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beating a dead horse every winter seems like,
pretty simple and easy IMO, yes Mercruiser RECOMMENDS to add/pour approved anti freeze through the thermostat housing then leave it.
fogging EFI engines is a totally different procedure...Mercruiser special cocktail has been used/approved over the past years.

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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 25 Nov 2016 15:40 #18

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FYI...... the original Topic started by stock333 regards Merc 3.0L winterizing.
The GM 3.0L is Carbureted, and it can be Fogged!
It isn't until when Waterdowg brings in the idea that ALL of his local shops Fog ALL engines, etc etc. whereby we begin to deviate from what could have been simple.



itsabowtime2 wrote: There are many topics that cause debate.
Let's be fair and recognized that some debates are brought on by misunstanding, and that some are created as a result of personal preferences!

What spark plugs are best
What oil is better
Stainless vs. Aluminum prop
What brand oil filter
RV Antifreeze, yes or no?
Fog, yes, no.
Fogging is not mandadory. Many shops will not perform Fogging, or perhaps they DO NOT know how to Fog a Carbureted Engine, let alone know what to do between the in-line cylinder engine and a V cylinder engine.
The GM 3.0L is very simple to Fog!


The key is to winterize your engine. And that you are doing. If you go the RV Antifreeze way or not is personal choice. Same with Fogging. Don't allow the debate to stop you from doing what you are comfortable with.
OK.... Phil, let's run with your idea for a minute. Let's say that Hurbert is winterizing his Marine engine. Let's say that Hurbert's engine is a late model GM 5.7L w/ MPI. Hurbert has just read a BOC thread whereby Cylinder Fogging is being discussed.
Is your above suggestion to say that Hurbert (regardless of the warrings and/or the validity of them) that he should just do what he wants to..... including Fogging his MPI system????


And if you have a professional do it, it will add that layer of protection that if they do it wrong and damage does occur (in the unlikely event) you have some recourse.
I'll take a hand full of Prevention over that of your idea of Recourse!
Prevention = "NO Mr. Merc Shop"...... "you are not going to Fog my MPI engine!"

If I'm reading correctly, Waterdowg (in post #5) said that the Professionals in his area ALL do this to ALL engines!
I wonder if Merc knows that these shops are going against Factory Protocol to this degree.


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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 25 Nov 2016 16:08 #19

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fogging EFI engines is a totally different procedure... Mercruiser special cocktail has been used/approved over the past years.


As I've been saying here all along............ We DO NOT Fog MPI engines! :evil:

If we DO..... we may foul up the Air Sensor circuits. That would be costly to repair.

We Fog Carbureted Engines!
We introduce an Oil Enriched fuel mixture (via the primary fuel filter cartridge) for EFI and/or MPI engines.

How many different ways do some of you guys need to hear this????? :P




Copy/paste from Volvo Penta data source.
Both Volvo Penta and Merc use basically the same system:


If the boat is being stored, engine and fuel system internal components should be coated with a light film of oil to prevent corrosion. This was previously accomplished by "fogging" the engine.
The design of multi-port fuel injected engines does not permit the introduction of fogging oil through the intake system. The following Fuel Storage Mixture procedure introduces the oil through the fuel system, protecting both the fuel system and engine during storage.


Again.............. Fogging is Fogging.
Adding an oil enriched mixture via the main filter cartridge is NOT Fogging! :)

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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 25 Nov 2016 17:05 #20

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oh boy, is someone picky this morning :P
YES! WE DO FOG MPI ENGINES! At least that is what we call it in this industry...including the biggest sterndrive manufacture in the world.
"introduce an oil enriched fuel mixture" ? :lol:
& BTW we do not fill this enriched fuel mixture through the NEW fuel filter cartridge...simply not enough special cocktail to feed thru since we run these engines up to 10 minutes.





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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 25 Nov 2016 17:27 #21

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Joon, the word Fogging is being used incorrectly, and is right in step with what we have done with many of our words today. ............... an Engine being called a Motor..... or as in Adjusting Valves when we are actually adjusting Cam Follower "plunger" depths.


You guys go ahead and continue.


.

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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 25 Nov 2016 17:39 #22

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Arguing against my Mercruiser Factory Manual again? :) just kidding.
Rick, IMHO it truly doesn't really matter which correct terminology we use as long as we understand each other, but that's just me.
Also I respect / understand your opinion as always.

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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 25 Nov 2016 17:55 #23

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Ruffryder wrote: Arguing against my Mercruiser Factory Manual again? :) just kidding.
Rick, IMHO it truly doesn't really matter which correct terminology we use as long as we understand each other, but that's just me.
Joon, that is part of the problem!

Imagine that it no longer matters what name your Surgeon uses when he asks the medical team assistant for a XXX when he actually needed a YYY during your Open Heart Surgery.

Words have meanings...... and the more that we dilute these meanings, the more risk of miscommunication.


Also I respect / understand your opinion as always.
Likewise...... and I hope that it continues! :)



I could sit here this moring and find 100 or more forum writings whereby the term Fogging is now being used incorrectly.
I could quote people saying that you remove spark plugs and add oil, or that you remove spark plugs and spray fogging oil into the cylinder.
Or that by fattening up the fuel mixture (in the cartridge) will Fog the engine.
These are the same exact people who NEVER understood the Original Fogging procedure from the beginning!
And these are the same folks who allow the fogging oil to kill the Engine.
:whistle:

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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 25 Nov 2016 18:05 #24

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yes brother Rick :cheer:

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merccrusier 3.0 best way to winterize 25 Nov 2016 19:45 #25

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Sounds to me someone didn't have turkey last night.

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