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TOPIC: Pertronix electronic ignition kit

Pertronix electronic ignition kit 08 Nov 2016 03:06 #26

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If you cannot afford any thing else, then Pertronix works better than points for most of us.
I have never had any issues in the 2 boats I had with gas engines, 1st was 2 new Ford 351 marine engines, 2nd is my Bayliner with 2 350 GM crate engines, some day I may buy 2 new electronic distributors.
I do not travel fast in my 3870, at 72 I have time to enjoy just being on the water.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 08 Nov 2016 05:07 #27

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Should carry a spare igniter with that electronic distributor had 1 go out 1 time

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1988 flybridge trophy bayliner 2556 ,mercury 5.7 lit. OMC cobra out drive 76 hrs. on new package,
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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 08 Nov 2016 14:32 #28

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2850Bounty wrote: Yes..... this is an old thread that should be given a nice and polite burial. :)

I will reiterate:
Pertronix kits provide a quick and inexpensive means of converting a ketteriing triggering system (contact points) to electronic triggering.
This is done via a magnet embedded plastic ring that triggers the sensor.
The plastic wheel and sensor are rather cheesy when compared to others.
Pertronix themselves have reported separation angle errors of up to 1.5 degrees.
The conversion does NOTHING to correct worn existing shaft bushings that may create shaft-wobble of which will affect dwell angle.
The conversion does NOTHING to correct an Incorrect advance curve caused by old age and worn advancing components.

Do I like them...... NO!
Would I recommend one........ NO!

With gasoline Marine Engine ignition advance being so critical, I would suggest that you spend some additional money and purchase yourself a much better completely new system.
In mechanical advance...... VR would be my first choice.
In EST, I'd look at the Delco units.



.


yes, that is why I'm replacing the entire distributor, not just the points. I bought a drop in sensor but decided not to use them because of the whole ESA problem and when I bought them I couldn't find a reasonable priced ESA. Now they are down to less than $100.

But thank you for your opinion. Have you tried to buy a dwell meter lately? Mine was 42 years old so figured I pick up a new one......sheesh.....

Bought an after market dist $60 for an 85 toy out of china. I was surprised at how well it was made and worked. Same Hall effect arrangement was the original equipment. The truck has 325 k on it. Bought an after market dist for my moho, $40 and it included cap rotor, and everything. Dropped it in and runs great. Both were aluminum billet just like the pertronx unit. Sooooo...... Figured I'd try the pertronix unit, can't be any worse than having to fool around with a Mallory. Not that a Mallory is a bad unit, but I think they are an overpriced PIA to install. Nuff' said. I've worked with many Delco products, most are good but still made in china in the same factories as many of the after market products are. Example: Tech 2 code reader for GM products is now owned by Bosch who manufactures them in china. I picked up a $4000. unit for $$250. shipped to my home. What great tool!

It is a world market out there, and Chinese no longer means poor quality like it use to. Do you think an all american company like HP/Dell still manufactures it's computers in the USA? Hmmmmm....... you must be older than I am!!!!!

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 08 Nov 2016 14:33 #29

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desuch wrote: Should carry a spare igniter with that electronic distributor had 1 go out 1 time


actually I already have one, I bought to install in the current dist. will keep it on the boat. thanks.....

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 08 Nov 2016 14:42 #30

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boatworkfl wrote: If you cannot afford any thing else, then Pertronix works better than points for most of us.
I have never had any issues in the 2 boats I had with gas engines, 1st was 2 new Ford 351 marine engines, 2nd is my Bayliner with 2 350 GM crate engines, some day I may buy 2 new electronic distributors.
I do not travel fast in my 3870, at 72 I have time to enjoy just being on the water.


After 5 years, in storage, I found that just getting out there for a good float felt like going home..... I almost just sold it because I didn't feel like making the repairs, listed on craigs list, some fella called in 3 hours ready to pick it up for $4500, sight unseen. Then thought better of it and decided to fix the darn thing. Knew I wanted on the water again, better to fix my old junk rather than some elses old problems. Always wanted something larger. The thought of crawling down in the "engine room" is what motivated me to sell it in the first place. But it wasn't as bad as I remembered.......

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 08 Nov 2016 14:48 #31

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So I take it No one knows anything about the spring selection? if there is a preferable timing curve for this engine? I hate having to experiment by keep changing them out....

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 08 Nov 2016 15:49 #32

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Lonfu, please.... no offense here.

just to add some clarity:

1...... I don't see it being fair to compare automotive to marine, or visa-versa. Not only is the working environment and working load quite different, the expectations of a good, true and accurate spark timing are paramount for the Marine gasser. The auto engine specs are completely incorrect for marine use.

2....... I have never stated that the Pertronix kit system will not work. They do work.

3..... Hall Effect intrinsically is great. It is widely used across the board in many applications. It is simply that the Pertronix company has taken short cuts in their design and use of Hall Effect. IMO, they are just simply not capable of providing the accuracy (precision) of a more true electronic triggering unit such as VR or Photo-Eye, or even a larger base circle Hall Effect unit.



It is a world market out there, and Chinese no longer means poor quality like it use to. Do you think an all american company like HP/Dell still manufactures it's computers in the USA? Hmmmmm....... you must be older than I am!!!!!


Misnomer.
Chinese products that are built under contract with good standards US companies are more likely to be built to US specs. IOW, built using higher grade materials and workmanship.
Chinese products that are being built to compete with the US markets have no such quality control demands.


So I take it No one knows anything about the spring selection? if there is a preferable timing curve for this engine? I hate having to experiment by keep changing them out....


With the above question and statement, this is one more reason for NOT using the Pertronix conversion kit.
First off....... you are rolling the dice if you are changing your flyweight return springs without the aid of a Distributor Machine.
(see post # 19 again)

Secondly.... if you are not aware of the prescribed OEM ignition advance curve for YOUR engine, you are again rolling the dice.




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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 08 Nov 2016 21:29 #33

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If a person buys a complete marine dizzy then there is no reason to mess with springs etc.

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'86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

Pertronix electronic ignition kit 08 Nov 2016 23:45 #34

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I converted both of my previous boats to Pertronix 1 being a 305 GM motor and the other being a 460 Ford. Both distributors were in good condition and both boats ran better on the conversions than they did with the breaker points and started better.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 11 Nov 2016 15:55 #35

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With the above question and statement, this is one more reason for NOT using the Pertronix conversion kit.
First off....... you are rolling the dice if you are changing your flyweight return springs without the aid of a Distributor Machine.
(see post # 19 again)

Secondly.... if you are not aware of the prescribed OEM ignition advance curve for YOUR engine, you are again rolling the dice.


That is why I was asking if anyone had access to the OEM advance curve information. I've worked with changing out spring sets until I found the right combo before. It just takes time. The pertronix info is listed on their website. I just can't seem to find any info in the shop manual for the prestolite unit. I don't own a spark plug machine so I guess I'll have to start out with the installed set just like I have in the past.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 11 Nov 2016 16:11 #36

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RPrather wrote: I converted both of my previous boats to Pertronix 1 being a 305 GM motor and the other being a 460 Ford. Both distributors were in good condition and both boats ran better on the conversions than they did with the breaker points and started better.


Thanks guys for the recommendations. This boat is the last of my vehicles with points. Everything else I own is electronic ignition. While I still have several dwell meters, I get tired of fooling around with the adjustment. My current points distributor works perfectly. At High rpm it is faultering so I suspect the distributor. One thing I have noticed, most of the higher dollar distributors seem to use odd ball caps and wires. not sure if they at marine specific or not. the pertonix unit uses my old wires and the cap seems like it is marine designed. I have found that the closer I can stay to stock parts the less it costs me for routine maintenance. In my opinion because there is no vacuum advance, one may have to tweek the springs to get the performance that is wanted. It would be nice if I could just drop it in and it would work right.......BUT...... :(

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 11 Nov 2016 17:17 #37

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What ever you decide to do with regard to changing "flyweight return springs"...... make dang sure that you follow up by looking at the actual mechanical advance curve.
The best and most goof proof method is achieved by using a Sun, Allen or King Distributor Machine and with your OEM curve in hand.

Not only look at the curve, but look at the curve relative to Engine RPM and look at where the curve STOPS.... aka TA .... or Total Advance.

Ignition Spark Lead must be correct as per crankshaft angle and engine RPM at that particular crankshaft angle......... or we will suffer from low performance, or worse yet...... we will risk severe engine damage.


Here is an example of an ignition curve graph.
Note that the BASE or INITIAL advance is NOT shown. This must be added into the equation when looking at advance dynamically.






This image gives us a condensed version as to why spark lead is so important for LPCP (location of peak cylinder pressure).

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 14 Nov 2016 02:18 #38

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Oh for Pete sake, I found it right in the shop manual! I took and plotted/ recorded the new pertornix curve on the graph with the 5.0L original curve. the factory springs were about 2 degrees sooner/higher than the original ones. Still wrassling with the esa ballast resistor. thinking about replacing the coil too, all this stuff is 29 years old.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 14 Nov 2016 08:53 #39

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Wire it like a merc ... Do a search on this site.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 15 Nov 2016 13:11 #40

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Contacted CDI, the ESA folks. tech said that the total resistance for the ignition circuit needed to be 3 ohms. coil 1.5 and in my case resistance wire 1.5 ohms. Instructions said that the plug should 3 ohms. apparently there is a mistake in the instructions as the resistance at the ESA plug is only the resistance wire. So, add them together rather than subtract them for a ballast resistor value. this means that I don't need a ballast resistor. I found them on ebay for about $3 each, shipped from china. Identical to the CDI units with out the wire for $27 less for each one. So, distributor and ESA are just simple replacements. Ordered a new exact replacement 1.5 ohm flame thrower coil and a new set of sierra plug wires. Had to call sierra to get the correct part number for my chevy 305 18-8802-1.

I am going have to move the main wiring connector. It sits on top of the distributor in a stainless steel clip. the new pertronix distributor is 8 1/2 inches tall, about 1 1/2 inch taller than the original prestolite unit.

Noticed that my engine battery charge is not staying up with on board batt 110v charger engaged. checked voltage at batt and nothing on engine batt. Guess it is time for a new one. Seems like just last month that I installed it, 1999. I keep wondering in my mind if running the engine with it attached ruined it? New Marinco one doesn't really say it can be left attached when running engine, any one know or have some experience with this?

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 15 Nov 2016 13:17 #41

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by the way, no offense taken, free advice is like free coffee, it is what it is and I won't complain.....

I'm not trying to build a power/performance boat, just replace my current distributor. Because of the engine location, I stand on the stringers and have to straddle the engine while wife turns it over in order for me to adjust the dwell. My "pagoda's" are hanging right over the alternator belt and it just makes me a bit nervous when it is running. I'm talking about less than an inch!!!!! :ohmy: Needless to say as I've gotten older they tend to hang a bit lower so I have been a bit more nervous of late....... I can check the timing from the deck, whew! :whistle:

2850Bounty wrote: Lonfu, please.... no offense here.

just to add some clarity:

1...... I don't see it being fair to compare automotive to marine, or visa-versa. Not only is the working environment and working load quite different, the expectations of a good, true and accurate spark timing are paramount for the Marine gasser. The auto engine specs are completely incorrect for marine use.

2....... I have never stated that the Pertronix kit system will not work. They do work.

3..... Hall Effect intrinsically is great. It is widely used across the board in many applications. It is simply that the Pertronix company has taken short cuts in their design and use of Hall Effect. IMO, they are just simply not capable of providing the accuracy (precision) of a more true electronic triggering unit such as VR or Photo-Eye, or even a larger base circle Hall Effect unit.



It is a world market out there, and Chinese no longer means poor quality like it use to. Do you think an all american company like HP/Dell still manufactures it's computers in the USA? Hmmmmm....... you must be older than I am!!!!!


Misnomer.
Chinese products that are built under contract with good standards US companies are more likely to be built to US specs. IOW, built using higher grade materials and workmanship.
Chinese products that are being built to compete with the US markets have no such quality control demands.


So I take it No one knows anything about the spring selection? if there is a preferable timing curve for this engine? I hate having to experiment by keep changing them out....


With the above question and statement, this is one more reason for NOT using the Pertronix conversion kit.
First off....... you are rolling the dice if you are changing your flyweight return springs without the aid of a Distributor Machine.
(see post # 19 again)

Secondly.... if you are not aware of the prescribed OEM ignition advance curve for YOUR engine, you are again rolling the dice.




.

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Last Edit: by lonfu.

Pertronix electronic ignition kit 09 Jan 2017 15:10 #42

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Good news!I called pertronix, tech said that I shouldn't need diode fix if I replace the ESA, which I did, with a CDI unit.

Bad news, water in the outdrive oil, thinking it is the water pump plate adapter shaft seal. It has been sitting for a long time, 7 years since I last changed the outdrive oil. So, think I will take it on a cruise and change the oil again, if there is water in the oil, then time to change out the shaft seal. I did change out the sterndrive water pump, but doubt that would help any. I'm ready to set the timing but now it is raining ........

Pulled the exhaust elbows and cleaned them out, one side was worse than the other. Used air to blow out the exhaust manifolds. Utube had a video about how to make a cleaner out of a hacksaw blade to clean around the outlet vent on the bellows, worked really good. Looked like some rust but mostly dirt???? Guess it got picked up in shallow water.

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Last Edit: by lonfu.

Pertronix electronic ignition kit 09 Jan 2017 15:17 #43

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Yes, looks like the Pertronix curve falls right in the middle of your graph. So the original installed springs should be perfect.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 09 Jan 2017 15:25 #44

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" 7 years since I last changed the outdrive oil "

Tell me it ain't so ...
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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 09 Jan 2017 16:07 #45

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I have been using Pertronix since the mid 90's both on Ford 351 and my 350 GM crate engines, never have had an issue with Pertronix, it sure beats messing with points.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 25 Jan 2017 03:24 #46

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Sadly, yes. Had to have a stent installed into one of my arteries. It really slowed me down. I was just going to sell it, but decided to let it sit in my windowless garage until I had recovered and see if I had the energy to still use it. Statin drugs really slow a fella down....... So, I let it sit for 5 years unused, untouched. Figure the water must have seeped in while sitting for the 5 years even through I had drained the block and manifolds. I used it once in October then changed the oil and found water in the oil. Oil had less than 40 hours on it when I changed it. The engine "clock" says 329......... Replaced the outdrive waterpump, no oil from the plate seal, figure I'll use it once and drain to see if there is water in the oil, if so then a new plate adapter shaft seal.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 25 Jan 2017 05:18 #47

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Check the dip stick for signs of water, or just change the oil, oil floats on water, open the drain and let a little fluid out and check for water, if there is water do not start it without changing the oil.
Starting the engine with water in it makes for a mess to flush it out.
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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 25 Jan 2017 08:48 #48

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Lonfu

I'm in the same boat as you ...

Stent, statin drugs, and diabetes.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 28 Jan 2017 23:54 #49

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I quit eating meat and I lost 20 lbs. Started lifting weights nov 2013, have kept it light with short time between sets. Made a heck of a difference in how I feel. Walk or bike 1 to 3 miles per day too. I believe the meat and sugar deletions have kept me just out of range of the big DD. (diabetic devil) Blood pressure meds really beat me up for a while too, but the exercise has let me stop taking them, just got lucky!

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 28 Jan 2017 23:56 #50

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Yes, first thing I did was to change the oil, no water at all. I've cleaned the elbows and flushed each ex manifold separately. No heating problems or leaks at all.

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