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TOPIC: Pertronix electronic ignition kit

Pertronix electronic ignition kit 09 Feb 2012 04:28 #1

  • Alexirocz28
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there is anybody that is using this product to take the points out?

any reviews?

Bad?

Good?

TKS

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 09 Feb 2012 04:59 #2

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Alexirocz28;654079 wrote: there is anybody that is using this product to take the points out?

any reviews?

Bad?

Good?

TKS


looking for the same info myself

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 09 Feb 2012 07:20 #3

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Pertronix kits work very well, caution, do not reverse polarity, if you do it dies, follow the instructions and you will never go back to points again.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 09 Feb 2012 11:40 #4

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Alexirocz28;654079 wrote:

  1. there is anybody that is using this product to take the points out?
  2. any reviews?
  3. Bad?
  4. Good?

TKS

  1. I'm stuck using this product on the Volvo Penta OHC 4 cylinder engines ..... as there is no other option.
    Otherwise, you'd never see one of these kits in my shop or on my work bench!

  2. Yes! You can find many favorable reviews if you search this. People install these and they love them.
    Note what the comparison is typically being made against, and note the qualifications of the reviewer.

  3. Your call on that!

  4. Again, your call!


I suggest you read from post #11 on in this thread. These are my opinions only...... so read this with that understanding and with an open mind.
Then understand that when installing the Pertronix conversion kit into a potentially worn distributor, there may be issues re; inconsistent dwell and erratic and/or incorrect spark advance. This is because the kit itself does ZERO to correct any of your existing distributor shaft wobble due to worn bushings, and does ZERO to correct an advancing system that may no longer be delivering the correct advance curve/limit.
The conversion kit only changes the triggering from mechanical contact points to a Hall Effect type triggering unit.

If hell bent on using the kit, at least have your existing distributor run on a Distributor Machine, and by a qualified technician who will fully check it out.
If all is OK (shaft bushings and advancing system for a Marine curve), then the conversion kit will work.

.

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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 09 Feb 2012 13:19 #5

  • Fish-a-Palooza
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There may be better units but I have never had a problem with the pertronixs units and they are certainly much better than points!.

I agree a worn distributer should be repaired or replaced, but not using a pertronixs unit due to a worn distributer is kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face isn't it?

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 09 Feb 2012 15:02 #6

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I have a kit in my 1966 Continental conv., probably for over 10 years, and never a whimper of a problem.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 09 Feb 2012 16:29 #7

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Fish-a-Palooza;654144 wrote: There may be better units but I have never had a problem with the pertronixs units and they are certainly much better than points!.

I agree a worn distributer should be repaired or replaced, but not using a pertronixs unit due to a worn distributer is kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face isn't it?

Wayne, your points are certainly well taken and I agree.... much better than contact points. Can't argue that at all.
I can't even argue your second point either, except to perhaps suggest these:

  1. Who's installing these.... an owner, or a qualified Marine Mechanic?
  2. What prompted us to install the Pertronix in the first place?
  3. Was it just points being a hassle to deal with?
  4. Was it a worn distributor shaft causing an erratic dwell?
  5. Was if an advancing system that wasn't offering the performance to be expected?
  6. Did we NOT investigate 4 or 5 any further, and just grab a Pertronix kit thinking that this would solve the problem?
  7. Was owner Joe even aware of 4 or 5, and just grab a Pertronix kit?

What many do not understand, is that we still have a "dwell" to be concerned with.
Dwell for a Hall Effect (such as the Pertronix) and a VR system (such as the Mallory YLM) is controlled by the distance between the magnetic unit and the sensor.
A worn and wobbling shaft may cause an erratic dwell and we haven't even addressed the advancing system yet.

Wayne, I say this from experience having seen and heard the complaints after these guys install the kits without having their distributors testedand/or over-hauled.
Sure.... they get better start-ups and better low speed operation, etc.

I'll say this again.
Install the kit, and you'll have a better triggering system.... no arguement there at all!
Take the distributor in and have it tested/checked.
If found to be bad, have it rebuilt..... (I.E., re-bushed and the curve re-set).
Now you're into it for the cost of the Pertroix kit $$$ and the cost of the over-haul $$$.
What have we saved......... $75 to $100 over the cost of a complete new ignition system that is NOT Hall Effect?

Just say'n!

Just to be clear, these kits do what they are advertised to do.
My opinions against the Pertronix kits are my opinions only..... do what you wish.



.

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Rick E. Portland, Oregon
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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 09 Feb 2012 16:59 #8

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The one problem I've had lately is finding condensers that are reliable. My daughters ski boat has been plagued with condenser mysteries. I just carry a set of spare points and condenser in the boat. I was thinking of upgrading?? to the Pertronixs set up. What would you suggest as a better system.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 09 Feb 2012 18:14 #9

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I changed out the distributors on our 3270 with new distributors from AAA that had Pertronix units. Worked great and no problems the following 5 years, the advance worked properly. Also put the conversion kit in our 2455 with OMC SB Chevy it also worked great with no problems. I wouldn't hesitate to use again if I had something with point ignition.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 09 Feb 2012 18:47 #10

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Pertronix through AAA Marine .......... using Hall Effect............... $260..... not bad!

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Mallory YLM 624 AV ...... using VR triggering....... $272.

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Now that Go2Marine is a sponsor, you may even do better with price.




If you want HEI w/ mechanical advance, this unit does the trick at $330.
HEI can also be EST if you like that idea.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 10 Feb 2012 17:06 #11

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Check this for dwell issues:

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/PertronixAdjust.html

Good info. In short, the dwell, while non adjustable, is adequate.

If your engine is running well and you just want to get rid of the points, go for it. If it's running like crap, fix it first, then shift to the pertronix.

The condensor is meant to absorb high frequency transients which appear on the primary side due to the primary circuit opening. Really it's just a high voltage capacitor. I can't really think of a factor which would contribute to the failure of the condensor, other than perhaps a spark not being created in the secondary so that the primary has to absorb the energy which would normally be dissipated through the secondary (IE: Bad wires, bad plug, bad coil etc).



Chay

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 10 Feb 2012 18:04 #12

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Had a Pertronix system on my current boat that was installed by the previous owner. I had an issue where the engine would lose power after about a 30 minute run..... it was if it "lost" the timing advance. After ruling out fuel and mechanical issues, I went back to conventional ignition. The issue went away. Not sure what went wrong with the unit, but there was a definate issue with the spark advance, or lack there of, after the engine ran for a while. There's alot to be said for points/condensor, IMHO.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 10 Feb 2012 18:32 #13

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Frankly I never leave the dock without them! I've had electronic ignitions in all my boats. 2 pertronix and 2 Hot-sparks and never missed a beat. If you have a Volvo-Penta 4 banger Hot-Spark makes a unit for bosch dizzies. I just installed one my latest boat. I even put one in my old Honda SOHC4 motorcycle. Just make sure your coil is putting out the right currents, volts, and ohms. Depending on what you have you can get a ignitor with flamethrower coil kit for around $100 if you shop around.

Akwalker I think your problem might lie in too much or too little resistence in your coil. It causes the ignitor module to over heat causing exactly your symptoms. Says so right in the instructions.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 10 Feb 2012 20:54 #14

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I agree with bounty, that on the 8 cylinder setups that is alot of magnets to have positioned precisely in such a small wheel. It also leaves a question of the duration of the spark due to the "width" of the magnetic field...something that could provide more power but may require a little additional fuel if on the ragged edge with the AFR.
It would be interesting to mount a full degree wheel and check the accuracy of each firing event to see how accurate it is...up for the challenge Rick?
Overall I have had good experiences with the pertronix setups, especially on my non-choke equipped volvo OHC-4's, the starting is much better.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 10 Feb 2012 21:40 #15

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 11 Feb 2012 02:23 #16

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Let me throw my 2 cents into the mix here... I had a 28' Contessa with the 350 OMC drive it was underpowered as they all are and keeping the point adjusted was always an issue to keep the boat at peak performance. I put the Pertronix unit it the boat a nd lost top speed and rpm to the point of 4 mph. Going from 28 mph to 24 mph in an underpowered Contessa is a huge loss so I went back to points and solved all of my problems.
I now own a 32' Avanti with twin 350 OMC drives and installed the pertronix system with no issues at all... As I get older I reall appreciate not having to spend the time installing point every year... The pertronix works well for me...

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 11 Feb 2012 02:26 #17

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Let me throw my 2 cents into the mix here... I had a 28' Contessa with the 350 OMC drive it was underpowered as they all are, and keeping the point adjusted was always an issue to keep the boat at peak performance. I put the Pertronix unit it the boat and lost top speed and rpm to the point of 4 mph. Going from 28 mph to 24 mph in an underpowered Contessa is a huge loss so I went back to points and solved all of my problems.
I now own a 32' Avanti with twin 350 OMC drives and installed the pertronix system with no issues at all... As I get older I really appreciate not having to spend the time installing point every year... The pertronix works well for me...

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 11 Feb 2012 03:39 #18

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I upgraded to the pertronix ignition last year after having alot of problems with points luckily i replaced the entire thing because it wasnt the points that were the problem. there was a 1/4" play in the distributor shaft. since i changed over i dont even need my tabs to get on plane.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 11 Feb 2012 03:51 #19

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http://www.aaamarine.com/servlet/the-363/chevpromarine%2Cmarine%2Celectronic-ignition%2Cdistributor%2Chigh-performance%2Cfuel-economy%2Cchev%2Cchevy%2Csbc%2Cmercruiser%2Cvolvo%2Cpleasurecraft%2Comc%2Chei%2Cdiscount%2Csale%2Cpointless%2Cbreakerless%2Cmsd%2Cmallory%2Cpertronix/Detail

[h=1]ChevProMarine marine electronic ignition distributor ON SALE $249.97 with INTERNAL performance coil[/h]

What about this distributor is it any better? Are there any problems with the interupter switch ?

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 11 Feb 2012 14:39 #20

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rkcarguy;654626 wrote: ......... It would be interesting to mount a full degree wheel and check the accuracy of each firing event to see how accurate it is...up for the challenge Rick?

No need for any special degree wheel set up.
A good tech with an old school Sun machine can show you each cylinder firing on the machine's strobe wheel.
If each cylinder is not firing at the same spread in degrees, then it's likely that the triggering device is defective.
(I.E, points cam, hall effect magnetic unit, VR reluctor point indexing, or photo eye rotor wheel)
If all is OK, then the spacing (in degrees) between spark events will be equal.

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Mattmm;654739 wrote: I upgraded to the pertronix ignition last year after having alot of problems with points luckily i replaced the entire thing because it wasnt the points that were the problem. there was a 1/4" play in the distributor shaft. since i changed over i dont even need my tabs to get on plane.

This is the impetus that prompts me to suggest that we always have our existing, possibly worn, distributors tested and repaired prior to making the Petronix conversion.
If all is OK, then we will have gained the full benefits of the Pertronix style electronic conversion.
Understand that this is still not VR or Photo Eye precision, IMO.


crowder.dr;654747 wrote: http://www.aaamarine.com/servlet/the-363/chevpromarine%2Cmarine%2Celectronic-ignition%2Cdistributor%2Chigh-performance%2Cfuel-economy%2Cchev%2Cchevy%2Csbc%2Cmercruiser%2Cvolvo%2Cpleasurecraft%2Comc%2Chei%2Cdiscount%2Csale%2Cpointless%2Cbreakerless%2Cmsd%2Cmallory%2Cpertronix/Detail

ChevProMarine marine electronic ignition distributor ON SALE $249.97 with INTERNAL performance coil



What about this distributor is it any better? Are there any problems with the interupter switch ?

This is still Hall Effect. If you're OK with this particular arrangement and usage of Hall Effect, then go for it.




A couple of bullet points re; Richard Atwell's ratwell.com article that is linked to by member Chay:
These are in no certain order.

Point dwell angle is predicated by the number of distributor cam degrees dedicated to one cylinder.
Example:
A four cylinder distributor dedicates 90 degrees to one spark event. (distributor degrees..... not crank degrees)
Of that 90 degrees we divide this into both coil "saturation" time, and contact "open" time.
Richard refers to a dwell of 53 degrees for a VW 4 cylinder engine.
53 degrees can easily be subtracted from a total of 90 degrees leaving an "open" duration of 37 degrees.
Obviously these 4 cylinder numbers won't work for a 6 or 8 cylinder engine ignition because the 6 and 8 cylinder ignition can dedicate only 60 and 45 degrees to one cylinder spark event.
This is why dwell angle is different for each 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engine.
No real point other than to add clarity for some!

Side note; Richard refers to setting point gap.
If you're going to set dwell using a feeler gauge, the 4 cylinder engine is where you're going to get away with this.
IMO, Richard would better serve his readers if he would further explain that "point gap" at best is an approximation of correct dwell ONLY, and that dwell is best acquired when using the correct tool (dwell meter).


As for the Pros/Cons.......

Richard says that the spacing of magnets in sleeve can be off by 1/2 degree.... I wonder what the real margin of error is!
FWIW, note that 1/2 degree error at the distributor is a 1 degree error at the crankshaft.
Let's say that this error is a full degree.
Now we have a 2 degree error at the crankshaft.
1 or 2 degrees is not much, and some may suggest that this is acceptable.

see posts15 and on in this thread.
http://www.baylinerownersclub.org/forum/showthread.php?66753-need-ignition-module-help-1997-volvo-penta-7-4gl-serial-4110125640/page2

Perhaps one day I'll saw open a Pertronix plastic magnetic Hall Effect unit and give us a cross-section view of just how these magnets are placed.
Then perhaps we can compare this to the machining of a photo eye shutter or rotor wheel, and/or the machining of a reluctor.

Again... Hall Effect is excellent for crankshaft position based ignition systems whereby the magnetic units are placed at a larger circumference.... not in a tiny cast plastic unit.... IMO.


Modifying the gap:
Again..... Richard is apparently referring to the 4 cylinder application where dwell angle is less critical.
Since both Hall Effect and VR use a similar induction flux principle, gap between the magnetic unit and sensor will indeed affect dwell angle some.
Not so with Photo Eye.

Where Richard talks about "Enlarging the gap further runs the risk that the mounting plate will contact the distributor body which will limit the movement of the advance plate or produce a scratching noise when you rotate the distributor" .........., this would be on a distributor where the breaker plate is free to move via a diaphragm vacuum advance unit.
This in NOT found on our Marine ignition systems!


What others say:
We cannot vary spark duration with the Pertronix unit. You can vary coil saturation duration via dwell angle...., but not spark duration to my knowledge.
The MSD ignition system can vary spark duration by producing two spark events for one cylinder firing.
FYI: what Richard is calling "charging" time, a large part of the industry will refer to as coil "saturation" time.

I eventually stopped reading because it pretty much limits this to the VW 4 cylinder engine.
Good read though!

.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 11 Feb 2012 16:36 #21

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When you change over the dist. or change to a electronic pickup you have to install the new esa module, the old module will not work with the new setup, another 70 bucks.

The new esa module will have one plugin and the overstoke plugin will not be there. you will have to contend with the 3 second delay when you shift.

Attached files

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'86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

Pertronix electronic ignition distributor upgrade Help!!!! 07 Nov 2016 10:31 #22

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yes, I know, an old thread. Bayliner chev 305 ci OMC re-built Rochester carb.1987 and yes, it is old too! But so am I. Sooooo....... I checked prestolite dist points gap/dwell, distributor seems tight. plates loose, all look good. runs up to 3k when getting out of the hole but will go no further in rpm's until on plane then slowly increases to 3800 rpm. Past experience with these blocks says the 305 block should top out at least at 4200-4400 rpm. Decided to replace with the d200800 and replace the ESA module with a new CDI ESA module. Called pertronix support, fella said it should run with out any changes to coil or coil circuit or ballast resistor wire.

Questions:
Old plug wires fit new cap?
Should I replace old coil with new flamethrower unit and pull resistor? If so where is it?
Should I stay with the installed silver timing advance springs or change to another color? Anyone have a timing advance chart for a prestolite/chevy 305 combo for comparison?
Lastly, will I have a problem with my original square Bayliner tachometer operating correctly?

Worked on vehicles/boats/RV's for the last 45 years, can do ECM diagnosis as well as all other rebuilds on all components and own the tools to do so. But...... my memory is not as good as it once was. Any help would be appreciated.


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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 07 Nov 2016 16:44 #23

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Yes..... this is an old thread that should be given a nice and polite burial. :)

I will reiterate:
Pertronix kits provide a quick and inexpensive means of converting a ketteriing triggering system (contact points) to electronic triggering.
This is done via a magnet embedded plastic ring that triggers the sensor.
The plastic wheel and sensor are rather cheesy when compared to others.
Pertronix themselves have reported separation angle errors of up to 1.5 degrees.
The conversion does NOTHING to correct worn existing shaft bushings that may create shaft-wobble of which will affect dwell angle.
The conversion does NOTHING to correct an Incorrect advance curve caused by old age and worn advancing components.

Do I like them...... NO!
Would I recommend one........ NO!

With gasoline Marine Engine ignition advance being so critical, I would suggest that you spend some additional money and purchase yourself a much better completely new system.
In mechanical advance...... VR would be my first choice.
In EST, I'd look at the Delco units.



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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 07 Nov 2016 18:22 #24

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100 percent agree.

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Pertronix electronic ignition kit 08 Nov 2016 00:48 #25

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I changed mine from points works great

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