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TOPIC: Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted

Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 25 Sep 2017 21:57 #1

  • Norton Rider
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This video from a Puerto Rico news station talks about the looting of boats. Apparently they are mostly after gasoline and diesel but they are also taking equipment and food. They mentioned that some boat owners are staying aboard to ensure that their boat does not get looted.

www.wapa.tv/noticias/locales/piratas-apr..._20131122414454.html

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 25 Sep 2017 23:30 #2

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Puerto Rico is known for its crime, so that doesn't surprise me. I've been there many times for work.
PR for some reason is treated like an illegitimate red-headed stepchild. The news doesn't report much about what is going on down there. Most people here don't know about the financial crisis they are in.

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 25 Sep 2017 23:33 #3

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green650 wrote: Puerto Rico is known for its crime, so that doesn't surprise me. I've been there many times for work.
PR for some reason is treated like an illegitimate red-headed stepchild. The news doesn't report much about what is going on down there. Most people here don't know about the financial crisis they are in.


That is not too surprising really - most folks do not know about the financial crisis that is affecting many of our mainland cities either.

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 26 Sep 2017 03:10 #4

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green650 wrote: Puerto Rico is known for its crime.


Not according to the latest FBI data, the violent and non-violent crime rates in Puerto Rico are lower than they are in most states.

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 26 Sep 2017 11:36 #5

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FBI crime reporting not represent reality? I'm shocked, shocked!

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 26 Sep 2017 12:07 #6

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Norton Rider wrote:

green650 wrote: Puerto Rico is known for its crime.


Not according to the latest FBI data, the violent and non-violent crime rates in Puerto Rico are lower than they are in most states.


They were lower - not likely any more.

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 27 Sep 2017 02:06 #7

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Personally, I do not consider looting these boat as a crime. This is about the preservation of life. The news tonight states that the powers that be are only allowing 2 flights a day into PR. Many families have no home, no food, and barely enough water to sustain themselves.

What would you do if your family hadn't eaten for over a week, and you knew where there was food, shelter and water? I would likely even steal a boat to get my family off the island to safety. And once my family was safe, I'd let them arrest me, ....or turn myself in.

Considering where this is taking place, to call this a crime is narrow minded, cruel ....and appalling.

If no one is living on these boats, I'm surprised the government hasn't claimed it a dire emergency and appropriated the fuel and food, and anything else they could use.

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 27 Sep 2017 03:49 #8

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I have to admit that if my family had no food or water I'd do just about anything, including theft, to keep them alive. This scenario is altogether different than thug looters who steal TV sets from an appliance store.

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 27 Sep 2017 09:33 #9

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Not sure why the USAF can't drop a half dozen forward controllers and their equipment into San Juan and open that airport...

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 27 Sep 2017 11:26 #10

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Jeffw wrote: Not sure why the USAF can't drop a half dozen forward controllers and their equipment into San Juan and open that airport...


Some flights are getting in and out of San Juan airport.

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 27 Sep 2017 14:46 #11

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The main airport (SJU) is open. Relief flights have been arriving regularly. As a matter of fact, I have a relative who is a C-17 Crew Chief in the Air Force Reserves that was sent there TDY to receive and help service the airplanes. I do not know if the other main airports are open and/or accepting relief flights: Aguadilla, Mayaguez, Ponce.

The issue with the boat looting, and looting on land as well, is that it is not only food, water, and fuel. Electronics are being looted from boats, consumer goods are being looted from stores.

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 27 Sep 2017 15:07 #12

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Is Rooselevlt Roads navel air station still in Puerto Rico?

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 27 Sep 2017 15:52 #13

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There will always be lawlessness where law enforcement - even self-policing - is compromised. But looting electronics is not the norm in most areas, particularly where people are fighting to get food and water. Reading that only 11 of 59 hospitals are open, (the rest completely destroyed or needing major work to reopen) and most of the open ones are rapidly running out of fuel for their generators AND have no space to take on any more injured, it seems safe to say that relief is not getting there.

The biggest issue with getting aid to Puerto Rico is The Jones Act, a 100 year old law that was waived for other islands, but not Puerto Rico. This law is also the reason Puerto Rico is in such debt.

Before I criticized or judged them, I'd have to walk a mile in their shoes ....or in most of these cases, their bare feet.

ADDITIONALLY, here is a little more info on the effects of The Jones Act.

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Last Edit: by CptCrunchie.

Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 27 Sep 2017 16:20 #14

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CptCrunchie wrote: There will always be lawlessness where law enforcement - even self-policing - is compromised. But looting electronics is not the norm in most areas, particularly where people are fighting to get food and water. Reading that only 11 of 59 hospitals are open, (the rest completely destroyed or needing major work to reopen) and most of the open ones are rapidly running out of fuel for their generators AND have no space to take on any more injured, it seems safe to say that relief is not getting there.

The biggest issue with getting aid to Puerto Rico is The Jones Act, a 100 year old law that was waived for other islands, but not Puerto Rico. This law is also the reason Puerto Rico is in such debt.

Before I criticized or judged them, I'd have to walk a mile in their shoes ....or in most of these cases, their bare feet.

ADDITIONALLY, here is a little more info on the effects of The Jones Act.



+1 on the effects of the Jones act.

Not only has it resulted in higher prices in the island for many years, but it has also resulted in zero boat building. This protectionist act also requires that US Flagged vessels be built in the United States. For this reason, ship and boat building has never been an industry in PR.

Note that the US Virgin Islands are exempt from the act but Puerto Rico is not.

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 27 Sep 2017 16:36 #15

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Old Man With A Boat wrote: Is Rooselevlt Roads navel air station still in Puerto Rico?


Sadly, Roosevelt Roads was closed in 2004. I believe that a big reason for this was the closing of the naval ranges on the islands of Vieques and Culebra. Ramey Air Force Base was closed in 1973.

There are only 3-4 military installations left on the Island. Fort Buchanan is a US Army fort that is kept in a ready status in case a situation requires US armed forces to move there. It is managed by a skeleton crew of DOD contractors. The Navy maintains a VLF communications station in the town of Aguada. The other installations on the island belong to the Army and Air National Guard, with a small active duty presence from Navy communications groups.

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Last Edit: by Norton Rider.

Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 27 Sep 2017 16:39 #16

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 28 Sep 2017 17:23 #17

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FWIW
My daughter is friendly with a number of newer USCG officers one of which is on the ground in PR.
He communicated that there is plenty of fuel , water, and food in the harbor and moving onto the piers but the distribution problem is terrible.
They believe they have 'months' of fuel on hand but cannot currently get it to where it is needed.
They are lacking trucks , truck drivers, passable roadways and communications - more boats in the harbor will not help.

This is an island rescue mission and it has some very difficult issues not seen in a land based response.
Using Helo's is not a good replacement for clearing the roads and finding drivers so heavy equipment and operators have become key.

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 28 Sep 2017 17:39 #18

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Let me see if I get this correctly. Millions of people on an island surrounded by ocean are starving for food and water. The goods they need to survive are sitting on a dock. The roads are trashed, so trucking is not currently an option for immediate distribution, and the few helos they have are extremely limited by the weight they can carry.

And there are 1000+ boats just sitting there? Hmmmmmmm........ How many Coasties are there? And how many other relief workers can drive a boat?

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Last Edit: by CptCrunchie.

Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 28 Sep 2017 18:12 #19

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CptCrunchie wrote: Let me see if I get this correctly. Millions of people on an island surrounded by ocean are starving for food and water. The goods they need to survive are sitting on a dock. The roads are trashed, so trucking is not currently an option for immediate distribution, and the few helos they have are extremely limited by the weight they can carry.

And there are 1000+ boats just sitting there? Hmmmmmmm........ How many Coasties are there? And how many other relief workers can drive a boat?



I am not sure what your question might be, Here is a link to a weather channel update....
weather.com/storms/hurricane/news/puerto...ages-hurricane-maria

The rest of the Caribbean and parts of the US are still in trouble at this time as well. Many assignments ongoing at the same time - not typical.

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 28 Sep 2017 18:49 #20

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I can fully understand the situation and difficulties. Puerto Rico is relatively level around the coastal metro areas. Inland from there the terrain gets mountainous rapidly. There are a few major highways that run east-west along the coasts and north south along the coasts and inland. These can probably be made passable relatively quickly if any of the bridges are OK. The issue is the myriad of small roads inland, around the mountainous areas. Many of these small roads are probably covered in debris, or washed out. Do a satellite view of the island on Google maps and start zooming in. This will illustrate what I'm talking about.

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 28 Sep 2017 18:53 #21

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Incidentally, even NOAA seems to be ignoring the island's interior: storms.ngs.noaa.gov/storms/maria/index.html#10/18.2561/-66.4721

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 28 Sep 2017 19:17 #22

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Norton Rider wrote: I can fully understand the situation and difficulties. Puerto Rico is relatively level around the coastal metro areas. Inland from there the terrain gets mountainous rapidly. There are a few major highways that run east-west along the coasts and north south along the coasts and inland. These can probably be made passable relatively quickly if any of the bridges are OK. The issue is the myriad of small roads inland, around the mountainous areas. Many of these small roads are probably covered in debris, or washed out. Do a satellite view of the island on Google maps and start zooming in. This will illustrate what I'm talking about.


Yes - it is a logistical nightmare and the totality of the problems are greatly affected by recent past history.
- relief work still ongoing in Texas
- relief work still ongoing in Florida
- Relief work still desperately needed in half a dozen other Carribean destinations
- Assets are being 'diluted' by the many areas affected
- Assets are also requiring maintenance and repairs due to longer use hours

This is a really poor combination of the islands limitations and the timing f the needs they are making progress but if it took a few days just to reach the end of the Florida keys imagine what the task is in Puerto Rico after this direct Cat5 hit.

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 28 Sep 2017 19:40 #23

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Spending a week or two fixing roads doesn't address the issue of supplies currently sitting on the dock that desperately needs to get out to the people. Since this is life and death, I think the government should appropriate the boats to make the deliveries around the island. It's only 100 miles long and 31 miles wide.

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 28 Sep 2017 19:48 #24

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They are already making great progress given the situation.
I believe it is impossible for anyone here to understand the logistics that they are facing right now.
And ..l I am sure they will use every means to solve the issues dependent upon the problem and assets on hand.

Just yesterday your thoughts were that the largest issue facing them was the Jones act and getting assistance onto the island.
Not so easy to guess what the real problems are and how hard folks are trying to help.

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Hurricane Maria - Boats Looted 28 Sep 2017 19:52 #25

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Norton Rider wrote:

CptCrunchie wrote: There will always be lawlessness where law enforcement - even self-policing - is compromised. But looting electronics is not the norm in most areas, particularly where people are fighting to get food and water. Reading that only 11 of 59 hospitals are open, (the rest completely destroyed or needing major work to reopen) and most of the open ones are rapidly running out of fuel for their generators AND have no space to take on any more injured, it seems safe to say that relief is not getting there.

The biggest issue with getting aid to Puerto Rico is The Jones Act, a 100 year old law that was waived for other islands, but not Puerto Rico. This law is also the reason Puerto Rico is in such debt.

Before I criticized or judged them, I'd have to walk a mile in their shoes ....or in most of these cases, their bare feet.

ADDITIONALLY, here is a little more info on the effects of The Jones Act.



+1 on the effects of the Jones act.

Not only has it resulted in higher prices in the island for many years, but it has also resulted in zero boat building. This protectionist act also requires that US Flagged vessels be built in the United States. For this reason, ship and boat building has never been an industry in PR.

Note that the US Virgin Islands are exempt from the act but Puerto Rico is not.



News: Jones Act repealed for 10 days . . . not what I had hoped for (total repeal) but guess it's a start . . .

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