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TOPIC: 3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK

3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 14 Oct 2011 16:37 #1

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OK,
I finally got around to tackling this job. It wasn’t as bad as first imagined. I had a friend, (Scott) come down and help me. We managed to complete the job in just a few hours.

There were several goals. One was to replace the hoses. The second was to eliminate unnecessary equipment and hose runs. And the third was to clean the inside of the holding tank.

Here’s a couple pictures of the original set up.

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The first thing I did was to pump and rinse the tank several times. It didn’t really help with the smell but at least the tank was empty.

We removed the main hose from the head and used a shop-vac to suck out any remaining---Stuff. I removed the main hose from the “Y” valve, stuffed a rag into it and taped the end with duct tape---just in case anything was left. Scott taped the new hose to the other end of the old hose. Between the two of us, we were able to push/pull the new hose through the cabinet in the head and into the cave.

Next, I removed the “Y” valve, macerator, overboard discharge hoses and finally the hose to the pump out deck fitting. It was necessary to remove the deck plate in order to get the hose off. The shop- vac was used extensively to clear the hoses before removal.

Everything removed and the new hose in place.

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The macerator, “Y” valve and over board discharge hoses were removed because it’s illegal to discharge black water into the Chesapeake. The chances of this boat ever seeing an open ocean are slim at best. If it did, we would just wait to pump out. It also allowed us to save money on replacement costs. The hose is about $5.00 per foot. Ten to fifteen feet of hose was eliminated.

There was a considerable amount of hose that was below the top of the holding tank. That allowed for lots of effluent to lie in the hoses. This is a primary reason why the hoses get permeated.

My intent was to keep as much of the hose above the tank. The main hose was run directly back to the inlet at the top of the tank. (Instead of through the “Y” valve) I tried to keep it as high and flat as possible in order to avoid having low spots. The boat squats to aft, that helps gravity move the waist to the tank when the boat is at rest. As soon as the boat moves forward the centrifugal force moves any remaining waist to the tank.

The same theory applies to the pump out hose. Originally, it came out of the tank from the bottom. I plugged that fitting and re-routed the hose to the top of the tank. (My tank has several unused fittings) A pipe was added to extend the pump out, to the bottom of the holding tank. It actually worked out better than expected. Combined with the aft squat, the boat also lists to starboard. The extension pipe ended up being in the lowest part of the tank, ensuring complete drainage when pumping out.

The old discharge plugged.

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The finished job.

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While the new fitting was open, I took the opportunity to clean the tank. A cup of laundry detergent was added and the interior of the tank and was vigorously sprayed with a garden hose. That loosened the sludge inside the tank. After another pump out and rinse the tank was almost totally free of solids.

I have read every thread in the last four years on holding tank maintenance. Most of them are centered on all the different products available to help keep the tank clean or the odor at bay. I tried a few of those products and had only marginal success. The fact was that none of those products could cure the problem because the only remedy was to change the hoses.

Although it’s only been a month since we completed the project, Jan and I have been employing clean tank practices. We pump out and rinse as often as possible. We also add a cup of laundry detergent after each pump out. It sloshes around and cleans the tank as it fills. It also seems to help dissolve the solids better and keep them from settling out in the tank.

The end result of our efforts is that the boat smells much better. In fact I don’t think it has smelled this fresh since it left the factory. It’s most gratifying and was the goal.

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 14 Oct 2011 20:48 #2

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Great writeup Reed, thanks. I'm in the process of installing a new electric toilet, which uses a 1" discharge, the old one is 1.5". I've been wanting to replace that line anyway. I'd love to clean out the tank in the way you described, but it's under the batteries and water heater, so no easy access to the top. I'm going to try to clean it from the incoming port before I seal up the new hose, hopefully that will work.

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 14 Oct 2011 22:49 #3

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Thanks Jeff, good luck . That's one of the nice things about the 32. Everything is in the cave (mostly) and relatively easy to get to. (Depending on how big you are.) Now that I have removed some of the extra hose and unneeded equipment, it's even easier to get to the rest of the stuff.

The laundry detergent really cut the crap---literally.:D Use it liberally, at least a cup or more depending on the tank size. Ours is only a fifteen gallon and I used a cup. (Small jelly jar)

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 15 Oct 2011 09:42 #4

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Mine is in the engine compartment, 30 gallon. This job, as usual, is proving to be much larger than originally anticipated. The boat had a raw water wash down pump, but not large enough to supply the head. It WAS fed from the genset intake, bad idea. Now the genset is by itself, and the new pump will supply the toilet and washdown from the original head intake. I'll probably post a completed projects thread...

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In memory of Shadow, the best boat dog ever. Rest in peace, girl. July 2, 2010

3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 15 Oct 2011 11:18 #5

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Looks nice!

On my Vacuflush system I periodically scrub the interior of the tank, so mine also stays clean.

It looks like there is now a schedule 40 PVC pipe plug on the old unused discharge through hull. Is that ABYC-rated for a below waterline application? Why not just change that to a bronze part?

It also looks like schedule 40 PVC parts on the below-waterline centrifugal A/C pump output. Those should probably also be marine parts.

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 15 Oct 2011 14:47 #6

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wingless;621255 wrote: Looks nice!

On my Vacuflush system I periodically scrub the interior of the tank, so mine also stays clean.

It looks like there is now a schedule 40 PVC pipe plug on the old unused discharge through hull. Is that ABYC-rated for a below waterline application? Why not just change that to a bronze part?

It also looks like schedule 40 PVC parts on the below-waterline centrifugal A/C pump output. Those should probably also be marine parts.


Tank plug or through hull?

The through hull is above the water line. I haven't found a good way to plug it yet. It's made for a hose to fit over it. I just jammed a PVC cap on it and duct taped it to keep the bugs out until I find a better solution. Do you have any suggestions?

I'll change the tank plug if you think it matters.

As for the AC---hadn't really thought about it. We only used the AC once all season. I keep the seacock closed when not in use. There's not much pressure on it when it is running.

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 16 Oct 2011 01:58 #7

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wingless;621255 wrote: It looks like there is now a schedule 40 PVC pipe plug on the old unused discharge through hull. Is that ABYC-rated for a below waterline application? Why not just change that to a bronze part?

It also looks like schedule 40 PVC parts on the below-waterline centrifugal A/C pump output. Those should probably also be marine parts.

R&Jonthebay;621287 wrote: Tank plug or through hull?

The through hull is above the water line. I haven't found a good way to plug it yet. It's made for a hose to fit over it. I just jammed a PVC cap on it and duct taped it to keep the bugs out until I find a better solution. Do you have any suggestions?

I'll change the tank plug if you think it matters.

As for the AC---hadn't really thought about it. We only used the AC once all season. I keep the seacock closed when not in use. There's not much pressure on it when it is running.

Wow, the waste discharges above the waterline? I would not have expected that...

There are many options for capping the old through hull tube.

One is to use fiberglass and resin or epoxy. Another is to attach a plugged hose w/ double hose clamps and put an upward bend so it won't permit water intrusion.

Those schedule 40 fittings on the AC centrifugal pump are below waterline and are probably not ABYC rated. If they fail then it could lead to the boat sinking and to a bad discussion with the insurance company. Use parts that are rated for below waterline application.

The holding tank plug is probably okay.

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 12 Jul 2012 15:39 #8

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R&j

Have same boat and follow your upgrades. I want to do the same job (eliminating y valve, etc.) my question is the pickup pipe you made for pump out--What size is it and what type of fitting did you use to enter top of tank and connect pickup tube together? Also the "from tank to macerator" hoses, are they still connected?, and is that macerator still being used?

Thanks for all the ideas and photos of your projects, it makes it alot easier to understand and accomplish with the extra info

Bill

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 13 Jul 2012 00:11 #9

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Reed,

I know the cave is cramped (had a 32 before my 38)) Could you add a clean out port to the top? I did that on the 38 and rinse the tank at each pumpout. Also pump out the tank with a shop at the end of the season (winter demands on the hard). In the spring there is a nice clean empty tank. Using a hose down there for rinsing would be tight. FWIW.

Richard

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1988 3818 175 HinosNA

3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 13 Jul 2012 16:10 #10

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Capt. Poppie;702957 wrote: R&j

Have same boat and follow your upgrades. I want to do the same job (eliminating y valve, etc.) my question is the pickup pipe you made for pump out--What size is it and what type of fitting did you use to enter top of tank and connect pickup tube together? Also the "from tank to macerator" hoses, are they still connected?, and is that macerator still being used?

Thanks for all the ideas and photos of your projects, it makes it alot easier to understand and accomplish with the extra info

Bill


Bill, I used the "grey" type plastic (don't know what that plastic is called) fitting from Home Depot. It is threaded (1 1/2") on one end and a barb fitting on the other. A piece of 1" PVC pipe just happened to jamb fit into the inside of the threaded end. The 1" PVC pipe was extended down to about a 1/2" from the bottom of the tank. I was worried that it might get clogged being that small but so far so good. My tank had extra threaded fittings in the tank, I just had to cut away the plastic on the inside of the fitting. (AKA as a knock out) It happened to be conveniently located at the top rear and starboard side of the tank. That put it at the lowest part of the tank insuring a complete pump out. (the starboard list of the 32s has become a benefit:D)

Originally the hoses to the pump out and to the macerator both came off a "TEE" that was located at the bottom of the starboard side of the tank. I removed both hoses and the "TEE" and put a PVC plug in the fitting. The macerator is no longer usable. We never used it and it had been disabled (wires cut) when we bought the boat. We can't dump overboard here on the Bay so there's no need for it.

The removal of the macerator hose and the hose that came off the "Y" valve for directly dumping overboard, will leave you with two open thru hull fittings that are about a foot above the water line. At first I caped them off to keep bugs and water out. Last week I decided to remove the caps and install some screen over them so that fresh air could circulate in the cave. If it ever gets to the point that water is coming through them, the boat will probably have already sunk by then.:eek:

All in all, it's a much neater installation. Less hose to buy. Hoses not constantly flooded with waist. More room to access water heater, shower pump and fresh water pump/plumbing. The pump out hose was a pain to change. I had to remove the deck fitting to get the old one off and install the new one. Heating the ends of the new hose with a hair dryer will help get them on the fittings easier.

Hope this helps----Reed

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 13 Jul 2012 16:41 #11

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Richard Tulip;703086 wrote: Reed,

I know the cave is cramped (had a 32 before my 38)) Could you add a clean out port to the top? I did that on the 38 and rinse the tank at each pumpout. Also pump out the tank with a shop at the end of the season (winter demands on the hard). In the spring there is a nice clean empty tank. Using a hose down there for rinsing would be tight. FWIW.

Richard


Richard, I see no reason why a clean out port couldn't be installed. There's plenty of room above the tank.

When we pump out, Jan pumps water through the head as I pump out the tank. Then we refill the tank about half way and pump out again. I add about 2 cups of liquid laundry detergent to the empty tank. It sloshes around as the tank fills and helps dissolve the solids. So far, I haven't had the need to clean the tank more thourghly.....oprative words being "So far":D

I like the idea of the clean out port for the end of the season. (not so much doing it:eek:) Having the tank empty and completely clean for the winter would undoubtedly make a difference. There would be no reason to need to add anti freeze either (Air doesn't freeze and that stuff smells bad also) and would save some money.

Reed

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 14 Jul 2012 02:31 #12

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Reed,

I have found the clean out port a blessing. I pump out each time I use the boat and spray with a hose through the port, this allows direct access to the tank and turning the hose faucett spray cleans all of the tank. A favorite harbor master of mine suggested this years ago. I added the port. I have never used anti-freeze in the holding tank and cleaning it out well at the end of the season has done well. I also have not used anti-freeze in the potable water system for over 25 years, opting to blowing out the lines with compressed air. I added a fitting to the hot water tank and use it as an entrance for the air. In all that time I have never had a problem with freezing water line breakage. It takes time to open each and every faucett many times. At the beginning of the season I have empty lines with no anti-freeze and subsequent stink. If you have questions about the details I will be happy to walk you through what I do. FWIW.

Richard

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 14 Jul 2012 12:30 #13

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Richard,

I'm thinking a clean out port for the holding tank will happen this fall. Anything that can make boat cleaning and winterizing easier, more effective and less costly is a plus.

We have been blowing out the fresh water system (and AC units) for quite some time also. It's the only way to go in my book. This year I installed clean out ports on the fresh water tank. That allowed me to clean the inside of the tank and get rid of the twenty years of calcium crystals and crud that was in it. It also allows me to get the 10-12 gallons of water that isn't picked up by the pump, out of the tank.

I also plumbed the tank internally so that all the water is drained by the pump. We only fill the tank with as much water as we think we will need for the time we are planning to be on the boat. At the end of that time we drain all the water from the tank so that it doesn't sit in the tank until our next use and become stale. It has made a world of a difference. There's no longer a need to constantly be flushing the tank or treating it with bleach.

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 14 Jul 2012 13:05 #14

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Reed,

Agreed, nix on the chemicals. I installed a water filter which helps tremendously.

Richard

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 17 Jul 2012 22:32 #15

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Reed,

Thank you for the additional info. Guess what my next project is!!!

Bill

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 18 Jul 2012 03:11 #16

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Capt. Poppie;704411 wrote: Reed,

Thank you for the additional info. Guess what my next project is!!!

Bill


Your welcome, it's my pleasure to help were I can.

Good luck on your project. It's not that hard....or expensive.....just a bit smelly.






Please remember one important thing.........












Don't lick your fingers.:eek:

:D

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 01 Aug 2012 23:05 #17

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Don't forget to replace your vent hose.

It is that color for a reason. Permeability. The sniff test will tell you why!

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Silver Lining (new boat)

3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 03 Aug 2012 11:55 #18

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20miler;708628 wrote: Don't forget to replace your vent hose.

It is that color for a reason. Permeability. The sniff test will tell you why!


Yep!! Mine was pretty nasty...I hadn't changed it at the time I did the lines and any time I got near it I could smell it. If I touched it, my hands would smell.:eek:

So far I have only changed half of it. I changed it from the tank to about half way to the thru hull vent. The thru hull is not accessible (on my boat) without cutting an access port in the salon, just to the right of the cabinet on the starboard side. I have the port but haven't taken the time to do it yet.

The reason half of it has been changed is that I built and installed a vent line filter. I got some PVC pipe, a few fittings and some aquarium charcoal. It was very easy to build and cost much less than the pre-made ones that are for sale. There's a few threads on the site that show how to build one.

I think I built the version that Somesalior made. It unscrews in the middle so the charcoal can be easily changed.

I'll finish the job eventually, probably at the end of the season. Right now we're to busy using the boat.:cool:

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 04 Sep 2012 00:35 #19

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Reed,

Hope you enjoyed the summer. I finally got around to changing the sani hoses this weekend, following your post made it much easier as I already knew what to expect.


And as tempting as it was at times.................

















I did not lick my fingers.

Thanks again,

Bill

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3218 sanitary hose replacement---YUK 04 Sep 2012 22:35 #20

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Bill,

We have had one of the best boating seasons since we bought the boat. Our youngest daughter got her drivers license in the spring and we no longer have to be her chauffeur. That has allowed us to use the boat almost as often as we wish.

Glad to hear you got the job done. I'm sure you are enjoying the difference it has undoubtedly made.


Pump the tank out as often as possible. Flushing a toilet full of clean water at the end of day will help insure that no waist is left sitting in any low spots of the hose.

The vent line filter I made this spring works wonderfully. I/we no longer smell any odors outside the boat when someone flushes. It has made swimming behind the boat an even more pleasurable experience. Even my dock neighbor made a comment on how well it worked..........now, if he would just do the same.......maybe I'll make him one for Christmas.:D

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