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TOPIC: PP is gone ?

PP is gone ? 23 Jan 2017 16:13 #76

  • iceclimber
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Everyone needs to release their tax returns for complete transparency.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Iproff, rafaelfigueira, apaxtongt, TPerk274
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PP is gone ? 23 Jan 2017 16:23 #77

  • Iproff
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iceclimber wrote: Everyone needs to release their tax returns for complete transparency.


LOL

Very good
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PP is gone ? 23 Jan 2017 16:51 #78

  • TPerk274
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ksanders wrote:

Norton Rider wrote: As the leader/president, of this organization you have to make decisions, and soliciting the input of the entire membership will often just result in chaos. There is a team of people that I can guarantee discussed, argued, and debated the issue at length. I know this because when I was part of that team we debated the viability of PP more than once.

All that aside it is up to the Matt to make decisions that he feels are in the best interest of the organization in the long term. Leading this place is not easy, and no leader makes everyone happy.


+1

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PP is gone ? 23 Jan 2017 17:11 #79

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Norton Rider wrote:

ksanders wrote:

Norton Rider wrote: You guys are missing my point entirely.

I am not saying that deleting the PP section was a bad thing. I am saying that the moderators should solicit the input from BOC members prior to making such a change.


I don't agree with that, having spent my time in the helm chair here at the BOC.

As the leader/president, of this organization you have to make decisions, and soliciting the input of the entire membership will often just result in chaos. There is a team of people that I can guarantee discussed, argued, and debated the issue at length. I know this because when I was part of that team we debated the viability of PP more than once.

All that aside it is up to the Matt to make decisions that he feels are in the best interest of the organization in the long term. Leading this place is not easy, and no leader makes everyone happy.



Kevin,
Thanks for your feedback. I still believe that more transparency is needed before these decisions are made.


I appreciate the feedback.

Kevin is right, and on this topic, I felt I had enough feedback from the moderation and admin team (both present and previous) that, when added to our current duties, it made sense to close the Politics forum. I also spoke to why the forum was closed in my sticky note on this forum. And the reasons have been hashed, and re-hashed, and re-hashed again, here in this topic. I had enough feedback, and given what this site stands for (boats), it was not in keeping with where we are going as a club.

I have tried to stay quiet and let the conversations continue, but I wanted to respond to your points particularly because it implies we aren't listening to our members. Rest assured, we are, and I read every single comment on this topic. This is not a dictatorship. The mods and I are a team and we discuss these issues in the background before any decision is made.

I realize some of the more vocal will disagree, but hey, this is a democracy after all.
Matt Train
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Chicagoland, IL
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PP is gone ? 23 Jan 2017 17:22 #80

  • iceclimber
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I will be the first to admit that I get sucked into political topics. I had to remove myself from facebook, lost a bunch of friends etc. Having a 100% fake news and political free zone is a good idea. We get enough of that in the world.

In my humble opinion, that includes the Dock Walk as well.
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PP is gone ? 23 Jan 2017 17:51 #81

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The Dock Walk will not absorb the conversations that took place in PP. TDW will remain as it now - general conversation, and the mod team is in agreement on that and will enforce that.

I don't know how many other ways I can say this for certain individuals: Politics is dead here at the BOC. Go somewhere else if you need to talk politics. Come here if you want to talk about Bayliners.

I hope that's about as clear as it gets.
Matt Train
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Last Edit: by Download_Complete.
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PP is gone ? 23 Jan 2017 18:00 #82

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Download_Complete wrote:

Norton Rider wrote:

ksanders wrote:

Norton Rider wrote: You guys are missing my point entirely.

I am not saying that deleting the PP section was a bad thing. I am saying that the moderators should solicit the input from BOC members prior to making such a change.


I don't agree with that, having spent my time in the helm chair here at the BOC.

As the leader/president, of this organization you have to make decisions, and soliciting the input of the entire membership will often just result in chaos. There is a team of people that I can guarantee discussed, argued, and debated the issue at length. I know this because when I was part of that team we debated the viability of PP more than once.

All that aside it is up to the Matt to make decisions that he feels are in the best interest of the organization in the long term. Leading this place is not easy, and no leader makes everyone happy.



Kevin,
Thanks for your feedback. I still believe that more transparency is needed before these decisions are made.


I appreciate the feedback.

Kevin is right, and on this topic, I felt I had enough feedback from the moderation and admin team (both present and previous) that, when added to our current duties, it made sense to close the Politics forum. I also spoke to why the forum was closed in my sticky note on this forum. And the reasons have been hashed, and re-hashed, and re-hashed again, here in this topic. I had enough feedback, and given what this site stands for (boats), it was not in keeping with where we are going as a club.

I have tried to stay quiet and let the conversations continue, but I wanted to respond to your points particularly because it implies we aren't listening to our members. Rest assured, we are, and I read every single comment on this topic. This is not a dictatorship. The mods and I are a team and we discuss these issues in the background before any decision is made.

I realize some of the more vocal will disagree, but hey, this is a democracy after all.


Thanks
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PP is gone ? 23 Jan 2017 18:03 #83

  • Douggy
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Download_Complete wrote: The Dock Walk will not absorb the conversations that took place in PP. TDW will remain as it now - general conversation, and the mod team is in agreement on that and will enforce that.

I don't know how many other ways I can say this for certain individuals: Politics is dead here at the BOC. Go somewhere else if you need to talk politics. Come here if you want to talk about Bayliners.

I hope that's about as clear as it gets.


I don't think anyone suggested that political discussions should be allowed in Dock Walk now. The point I made was in response that BOC should be "boating only" discussions and I said that the Dock Walk isn't a "boating only" discussion sub-forum. The argument of political discussions on BOC is over as far as I'm concerned.
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PP is gone ? 23 Jan 2017 18:09 #84

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Douggy wrote:

Download_Complete wrote: The Dock Walk will not absorb the conversations that took place in PP. TDW will remain as it now - general conversation, and the mod team is in agreement on that and will enforce that.

I don't know how many other ways I can say this for certain individuals: Politics is dead here at the BOC. Go somewhere else if you need to talk politics. Come here if you want to talk about Bayliners.

I hope that's about as clear as it gets.


I don't think anyone suggested that political discussions should be allowed in Dock Walk now. The point I made was in response that BOC should be "boating only" discussions and I said that the Dock Walk isn't a "boating only" discussion sub-forum. The argument of political discussions on BOC is over as far as I'm concerned.


Good. TDW's purpose for being is clearly stated on the forum main page when you click on it and I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

Carry on....
Matt Train
BOC Admin
Chicagoland, IL
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PP is gone ? 24 Jan 2017 23:35 #85

  • Obi
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I totally agree and stand behind the moderators/admin who removed the PP section as I trust that they know what happens behind the scenes that the normal posters do not see.
I came to this site because of my bayliner boat, nothing more .
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PP is gone ? 26 Jan 2017 20:27 #86

  • TigerBoat
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Can we also ban football discussions if the Falcons win the Super Bowl?

(semi serious)
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PP is gone ? 26 Jan 2017 20:40 #87

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TigerBoat wrote: Can we also ban football discussions if the Falcons win the Super Bowl?

(semi serious)


I'm a Bears fan, so that ship sailed for me long ago.
Matt Train
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PP is gone ? 27 Jan 2017 01:58 #88

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Download_Complete wrote:

TigerBoat wrote: Can we also ban football discussions if the Falcons win the Super Bowl?

(semi serious)


I'm a Bears fan, so that ship sailed for me long ago.


Go Pack Go!! .... won't be an oft heard cheer at our SB party, so I don't have a dog in the fight. Hoping the commercials are top rate so we have something to talk about.

An as an aside, there is petition in place to make SB Monday be a Holiday. I'd rather have the SB on Saturday (they do playoff games on Saturday!) so then Sunday is an rest day. I'd rather not screw with the work / school / activity schedule on that Monday.
Yep, my Bayliner IS my happy place :whistle:
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PP is gone ? 27 Jan 2017 09:54 #89

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Go Pats.
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PP is gone ? 27 Jan 2017 14:45 #90

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Buncha communists in here.....

(I'm kidding! Sort of.)
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PP is gone ? 27 Jan 2017 15:59 #91

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I ain't sayin nothin ...
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PP is gone ? 29 Jan 2017 04:54 #92

  • Needtimetoboat
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Politics do sometimes pour into boating. Take the CETA Agreement. It attacks cabbatog laws in Canada. Means companies operating vessels in Canada need to be canadian owned an operated (Tugs ferries etc). With the CETA agreement the cabbatoge laws would be non existent and foreign vessels with foreign crews could replace ours with no knowedge or care of our coastlines or environment. That matters to all of us boaters. I do understand non related issues being of concern but I do think a ltitle leanience is necessary when it effects the boating community.
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PP is gone ? 30 Jan 2017 03:02 #93

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Ugghhhhh!!!

I was soooo looking forward to all of the Trump Presidency lively discussions. Especially after all of the wonderful President Obama discussions. Oh well ...
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PP is gone ? 30 Jan 2017 04:22 #94

  • itsabowtime2
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Think about it this way.

Look at this thread, zero consensus as to if PP should have stayed or not.

If we had put it out to debate, really, what good would have come from it? In fact, I believe it would have caused more harm then good. Those in favor of it staying would feel as if their voices had not been heard, their opinion did not count.

Sometimes the cleanest breaks are those not debated.
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PP is gone ? 30 Jan 2017 06:37 #95

  • freedre
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itsabowtime2 wrote: Think about it this way.

Look at this thread, zero consensus as to if PP should have stayed or not.

If we had put it out to debate, really, what good would have come from it? In fact, I believe it would have caused more harm then good. Those in favor of it staying would feel as if their voices had not been heard, their opinion did not count.

Sometimes the cleanest breaks are those not debated.


It's the "flip a coin" technique. I've used it many times and gotten reasonable results in a lot less time than the alternatives.

I think we should put this to bed and move on.

Just sayin'
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PP is gone ? 30 Jan 2017 07:16 #96

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What ... you guys didn't get access to the new BOC political forum?

That's the Boaters Opinions Count forum. :P

Hey ... it's got a ring to it :whistle:
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PP is gone ? 30 Jan 2017 09:32 #97

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Flash ....

How you doing buddy ?

Gonna be in your neck of the woods around the 4 the of July .
Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

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PP is gone ? 30 Jan 2017 15:07 #98

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Welcome back, Flash. We missed ya.
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PP is gone ? 31 Jan 2017 06:04 #99

  • LeePTI
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As a past participant in PP, I am glad to see it go. Like Iceclimber, it was tough not to look at Recent Topics without checking PP. (Yeah, I took a FB break too.) The result was less time on BOC and fewer contributions to boating subjects. This year is not politics as usual and IMO heated PP debates did sometimes negatively affect the regular sections.

Matt, IMO you don't need to defend the decision. Being a BOC member is a privilege and the MOD's & Admins have earned my respect. I will continue to contribute financially and with posts.

Enough fighting over politics. Back to boating!
Lee
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PP is gone ? 31 Jan 2017 11:48 #100

  • TigerBoat
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Needtimetoboat wrote: Politics do sometimes pour into boating. Take the CETA Agreement. It attacks cabbatog laws in Canada. Means companies operating vessels in Canada need to be canadian owned an operated (Tugs ferries etc). With the CETA agreement the cabbatoge laws would be non existent and foreign vessels with foreign crews could replace ours with no knowedge or care of our coastlines or environment. That matters to all of us boaters. I do understand non related issues being of concern but I do think a ltitle leanience is necessary when it effects the boating community.


Does the trade situation with Mexico & the US (which I suspect will impact Bayliner) fall into the politics arena?
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