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TOPIC: ethenol vs no-ethanol

ethenol vs no-ethanol 08 Feb 2016 22:14 #1

  • worm
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About to purchase a 2016, Element 16 with Merc, 75HP. Is Ethanol fuel with stabilizer added as non problematic to motor as Non Ethanol...finding non blended fuel is difficult to find near where most of my boating will take place. B)

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dlane, element 16 merc, 75hp Sims NC

ethenol vs no-ethanol 08 Feb 2016 22:30 #2

  • canoel
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Welcome to the forum!!
Non ethanol is of course your best bet. I think the Chevron 94 is ethanol free, and there are others as well.
What is your location? Put your location and boat info in your signature, it helps members help you in instances like this.

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Joel
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ethenol vs no-ethanol 08 Feb 2016 23:32 #3

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Thanks for the input.... another question, since the portable 12 gallon fuel tanks would be quite heavy, what would be the most efficient way to fuel up since fuel ports are seated within the body of the vessel with no outside access. (long funnel?) Thanks, dlane

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dlane, element 16 merc, 75hp Sims NC

ethenol vs no-ethanol 09 Feb 2016 00:08 #4

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Here is a great site for fuel stations that are ethanol free.
www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NC

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Joel
1987 3818 Hino 175
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Prince Rupert B.C.

ethenol vs no-ethanol 09 Feb 2016 01:09 #5

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canoel... you have been very helpful, thanks, dlane

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dlane, element 16 merc, 75hp Sims NC

ethenol vs no-ethanol 20 Jun 2016 20:42 #6

  • TigerBoat
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canoel wrote: Welcome to the forum!!
Non ethanol is of course your best bet. I think the Chevron 94 is ethanol free, and there are others as well.
What is your location? Put your location and boat info in your signature, it helps members help you in instances like this.


What makes you think Chevron Supreme is ethanol free?

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains

ethenol vs no-ethanol 20 Jun 2016 22:38 #7

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TigerBoat wrote:

canoel wrote: Welcome to the forum!!
Non ethanol is of course your best bet. I think the Chevron 94 is ethanol free, and there are others as well.
What is your location? Put your location and boat info in your signature, it helps members help you in instances like this.


What makes you think Chevron Supreme is ethanol free?

LOL Because it is. www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=BC At least in Canada, anyway.

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Joel
1987 3818 Hino 175
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ethenol vs no-ethanol 20 Jun 2016 23:49 #8

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worm wrote: Thanks for the input.... another question, since the portable 12 gallon fuel tanks would be quite heavy, what would be the most efficient way to fuel up since fuel ports are seated within the body of the vessel with no outside access. (long funnel?) Thanks, dlane


If you are looking for an efficient way to transfer fuel this gadget is extraordinary.

Shaker siphon

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Bayliner 185 2014 4.3 TKS (190 HP) Sport seating,smart tabs#60, 4bl 14x19 Turning point. Ste-julie,Quebec,Canada
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ethenol vs no-ethanol 21 Jun 2016 00:10 #9

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On Ontario. the Shell stations have E10 regular, E5 midgrade and non-ethanol (E0) high grade.

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ethenol vs no-ethanol 21 Jun 2016 12:52 #10

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canoel wrote:

TigerBoat wrote:

canoel wrote: Welcome to the forum!!
Non ethanol is of course your best bet. I think the Chevron 94 is ethanol free, and there are others as well.
What is your location? Put your location and boat info in your signature, it helps members help you in instances like this.


What makes you think Chevron Supreme is ethanol free?

LOL Because it is. www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=BC At least in Canada, anyway.


I live in the US. Our fuel mixes may be different.

Chevron Supreme is NOT listed as ethanol-free in my area. It is also sold as 93 octane vs. your 94. :(

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains

ethenol vs no-ethanol 21 Jun 2016 17:27 #11

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So to follow on this topic and back to the OP's question. How bad is it to use gas with up to 10% ethanol in these boats? I think my 2006 manual says ethanol is OK. I get the stability issue with the ethanol gas. But if we are in season and burn a tank every two weeks to a month, is that an issue? I know on my '96 Seadoos, it was a huge issue since the fuel lines on them at the time were very reactive with the brass fittings in the system. But on newer boats, how bad is the issue and exactly what should I look out for? The PO of my boat told me he used pump gas and ethanol treatment.... I am new to boats so I am trying to learn this stuff as fast as possible. Can newer boats use ethanol fuels without the fear of an issue, or is this with all year boats?

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ethenol vs no-ethanol 21 Jun 2016 21:28 #12

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you're right on the old fuel systems not only that but 2 stroke Seadoos run like crap on ethanol. Newer fuel systems like the FI 4 stroke on our boats can probably do ok with it but I've heard it's best to avoid it in marine use anyway since it attracts water vapor or some such thing. I'm pretty sure my engine owner's manual (2015 Mercury 115 4S, so same engine you have with a hotter tune) advises against the use of alcohol blended fuels. I know for a fact the tech at my dealer was opposed to them.

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ethenol vs no-ethanol 22 Jun 2016 00:31 #13

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Glad we do not have ethanol for our boats here in Seward AK, was told it would be cost prohibitive.

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Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

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ethenol vs no-ethanol 22 Jun 2016 11:39 #14

  • FISHIN00
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Yes finding and using ethanoll free fuel is great you can although use E10 if you use a additive like Startron. I've run E10 in my 40 thru 90 Hp Merc's 2 and 4str, along with my itty bitty 2hp Honda with NO ISSUE as long as I use something like Startron. Quick Silver also has a good additive , available at WalMart.

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ethenol vs no-ethanol 22 Jun 2016 15:04 #15

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Ethanol is fine to burn-it is the storage issues that are a major problem.

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Fred
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ethenol vs no-ethanol 22 Jun 2016 16:50 #16

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Flyboy III wrote: Ethanol is fine to burn-it is the storage issues that are a major problem.



+1

Modern engines will run OK on gasoline with ethanol. The issue is phase separation. This happens when the gasoline/ethanol mixture comes in contact with moisture. The ethanol will absorb this moisture up to a point. At the point of saturation, the ethanol and water will actually come out of solution and separate from the gasoline. This will form two or three layers in the fuel tank, with water at the bottom.

The ability of ethanol to absorb water before separation depends on the temperature: the higher the temperature, the more water the ethanol will hold. Additives may retard phase separation a bit, but will not prevent it.

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ethenol vs no-ethanol 22 Jun 2016 20:29 #17

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Flyboy III wrote: Ethanol is fine to burn-it is the storage issues that are a major problem.


Storage (even short term) and water/gunk accumulation is my concern. Not running on it.

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2016 75hp Element 160 w/ Smart Tabs & Sponson Drains

ethenol vs no-ethanol 23 Jun 2016 00:16 #18

  • Liquidarthur
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You're wasting your money. Do some independent research before you believe the Salty Old Seaman's tales about ethanol.

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ethenol vs no-ethanol 23 Jun 2016 00:40 #19

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Perhaps you might rethink your research, After years of complaints about carb corrosion and non running boats after winter storage I am darn sure that the ethanol in stored engines is the culprit. I keep several small engines in Hawaii. I had heck every time I returned with non runners after 4-6 months. After draining them and working non ethanol fuel thru the system they work again-that WAS WITH storage preservatives. One time I returned and my GMC pickup would not run. After starting it and running it on WD-40 for 20 minutes it was fine-after the separated ethanol fuel was run through. I now fill it with non ethanol before storage just like the small engines and it starts fine after 4-6 months of sitting. My son has a small gas Bayliner-terrible troubles using ethanol fuels and the boat sitting for a month or two, Non ethanol fuel and it runs sweet every time, even after winter storage. Why do you suppose non ethanol fuels first showed up at marinas then spread to land side stations that are frequented by yard maintenance companies for their small engines? I run non ethanol in my dinghy-I want it to start every time-especially if I have an emergency. I am convinced and you should rethink instead of fight ever mounting evidence. Experience counts!
Cheers,
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Fred
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Last Edit: by Flyboy III.

ethenol vs no-ethanol 23 Jun 2016 02:16 #20

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Liquidarthur wrote: You're wasting your money. Do some independent research before you believe the Salty Old Seaman's tales about ethanol.



This is not a very constructive or helpful comment.

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ethenol vs no-ethanol 24 Jun 2016 02:25 #21

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Well I'm sorry if you don't appreciate my comment. Pointing people towards doing their own research seems useful to me, and I was talking more to the OP than anyone else, but hey, thanks for your unsolicited opinion. I am well aware of the storage issues with ethanol. I tend to use my boat and jet skis more than store them in Hawaii for 6 months at a time, so it has never been an issue for me. Perhaps that is why I have different perspectives and different experiences (and thus encourage research instead of the rumor mill, lol). I hear constant unbased information about ethanol anytime I'm near water. A newer engine, being used frequently, has no need for extra additives, and that's why I said the OP is wasting money. If you don't find independent research constructive then, well I guess dock talk is all the information you need. We are actually in agreement, though by reading some of your previous comments....

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ethenol vs no-ethanol 24 Jun 2016 02:44 #22

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Liquidarthur wrote: Well I'm sorry if you don't appreciate my comment. Pointing people towards doing their own research seems useful to me, and I was talking more to the OP than anyone else, but hey, thanks for your unsolicited opinion. I am well aware of the storage issues with ethanol. I tend to use my boat and jet skis more than store them in Hawaii for 6 months at a time, so it has never been an issue for me. Perhaps that is why I have different perspectives and different experiences (and thus encourage research instead of the rumor mill, lol). I hear constant unbased information about ethanol anytime I'm near water. A newer engine, being used frequently, has no need for extra additives, and that's why I said the OP is wasting money. If you don't find independent research constructive then, well I guess dock talk is all the information you need. We are actually in agreement, though by reading some of your previous comments....


Does Hawaii even use ethanol? My fuel here in AK does not.

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Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

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ethenol vs no-ethanol 24 Jun 2016 02:59 #23

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boatworkfl wrote:

Liquidarthur wrote: Well I'm sorry if you don't appreciate my comment. Pointing people towards doing their own research seems useful to me, and I was talking more to the OP than anyone else, but hey, thanks for your unsolicited opinion. I am well aware of the storage issues with ethanol. I tend to use my boat and jet skis more than store them in Hawaii for 6 months at a time, so it has never been an issue for me. Perhaps that is why I have different perspectives and different experiences (and thus encourage research instead of the rumor mill, lol). I hear constant unbased information about ethanol anytime I'm near water. A newer engine, being used frequently, has no need for extra additives, and that's why I said the OP is wasting money. If you don't find independent research constructive then, well I guess dock talk is all the information you need. We are actually in agreement, though by reading some of your previous comments....


Does Hawaii even use ethanol? My fuel here in AK does not.


I've never been, do we have any Hawaiian members?

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ethenol vs no-ethanol 24 Jun 2016 03:21 #24

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I am a fairly new boat owner, having bought my first boat last year, a 16 foot element. It is in Delaware and only fuel containing ethanol is available. When I bought it, the dealer recommended that I was less likely to have issues if, in addition to using stabilizer for ethanol containing fuels, I use 89 octane fuel, not 87. I have followed the advice and so far so good, but I am not sure if the 89 octane really makes a difference. Does anyone have knowledge, not opinion, on the use of 89 vs. 87 octane? Thanks.

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Michael D. Galloway

ethenol vs no-ethanol 24 Jun 2016 04:34 #25

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Another good idea when burning that crap is simple and free. Just run it as normal then disconnect the fuel line and let the motor run itself dry. That way the ethanol won't be sitting in the lines and fuel bowls doing it's evil . That's the advice I got and what I have gotten away with so far. On the other hand you are still just plain better off using real gas if you can reasonably get your hands on it. Whatever you do try not to leave that ethanol gas in the fuel lines and carbs during lay up. That's when the real damage is done so avoid that no matter what you burn during the boating season.

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