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TOPIC: two-stroke engine bans

two-stroke engine bans 11 Jun 2012 18:39 #1

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Does anyone know of any regulations banning all two-stroke engines? I'm looking at used boats right now, one of which is 2000 Capri with a Mercury 125 hp outboard, which I understand to be a 2-stroke. A local dealer (Colorado) told me that some lakes regulated by both state and federal (eg Powell) governments will be instituting a ban starting next year. Online, I've only been able to find references to bans on 2-stroke PWCs, but not boats, and "potential" for expanding the ban to all boats. We'd be using the boat in CO, other western states, and probably MO (Lake of the Ozarks). Any clarification on 2-stroke regulations/bans in any of these areas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

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two-stroke engine bans 11 Jun 2012 18:45 #2

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I doubt they would get away with it....too many 2 strokes. Check with your state representative...what kind of Capri are you looking at?

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two-stroke engine bans 11 Jun 2012 19:22 #3

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Alot i mean alot of lakes now ban 2 strokes.

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two-stroke engine bans 11 Jun 2012 20:26 #4

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FISHIN00;694273 wrote: I doubt they would get away with it....too many 2 strokes. Check with your state representative...what kind of Capri are you looking at?


It's a 2000 18 ft. We're looking for an inexpensive boat that will hopefully retain it's value over the next year or two while we figure out if we're going to be a boat family. My wife and I both grew up playing on lakes in Missouri and Georgia, but it's not as easy here in Colorado with a shorter season, fewer lakes, and somany other outdoor options. but we still want to expose our kids to the water activities to see if they like it. Any thoughts you have on the used 18-ft Capri would also be appreciated. Thanks.

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two-stroke engine bans 11 Jun 2012 20:27 #5

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Chief Alen;694288 wrote: Alot i mean alot of lakes now ban 2 strokes.


Thanks for the reply. Can you give examples? ...it might help me figure out if it's specific to a state or region, federal vs. state, etc.

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two-stroke engine bans 11 Jun 2012 20:32 #6

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A good source of information can be local bait and tackle shops, along with the local service shops. They often know all the particulars about the local lakes.

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two-stroke engine bans 11 Jun 2012 22:23 #7

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Never heard of anyone banning 2 strokes, that would remove the majority of existing outboards from the lake.

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Chuck P
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two-stroke engine bans 11 Jun 2012 22:36 #8

  • Brad 3055
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I believe they are banned at Lake Tahoe.

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two-stroke engine bans 11 Jun 2012 22:47 #9

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one of the things I found via google:
http://www.nps.gov/lake/parkmgmt/twostroke.htm

Just use "lake 2 stroke ban" as search and you get more than you like. Looks like CA is heading the effort. It also looks like 2-stokes meeting the 2006 EPA regulations can be used.

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two-stroke engine bans 11 Jun 2012 22:55 #10

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Seems like yet another reason to stay clear of CA. We've got no nonsense like that around here, it would be hilarious to see someone try to enact a rule like that in MN. Can't even imagine how many 2 stroke outboards there are in MN.

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two-stroke engine bans 11 Jun 2012 22:59 #11

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jbaker;694309 wrote: It's a 2000 18 ft. We're looking for an inexpensive boat that will hopefully retain it's value over the next year or two while we figure out if we're going to be a boat family. My wife and I both grew up playing on lakes in Missouri and Georgia, but it's not as easy here in Colorado with a shorter season, fewer lakes, and somany other outdoor options. but we still want to expose our kids to the water activities to see if they like it. Any thoughts you have on the used 18-ft Capri would also be appreciated. Thanks.


I have a 2000 Capri 1802 Cuddy Cabin 90hp Merc,5hp Merc 4str kicker.

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two-stroke engine bans 11 Jun 2012 23:13 #12

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The largest lake in Whatcom County, Wa excludes all 2-stroke, including PWC. You can buy them pretty cheap here right now.

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two-stroke engine bans 12 Jun 2012 00:17 #13

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Would i recommend a i/o engine combo yes i would.

18'-20' cuddy with a port-a-potti or your wife and kids.

3.0l engine would burn around 4-5 gallons a hour run time. Maybe a 1992 up should get you on the water cheaply and safely.

With the trailer around 2500 dollars here in Nj.

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two-stroke engine bans 12 Jun 2012 01:30 #14

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but a 1992 trailer in NJ will consist 99% from rust..... Had to live there for 5 years........ And the boat may have some cracks where it sits on the bunks from the potholes in the highways.

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two-stroke engine bans 12 Jun 2012 06:00 #15

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Two strokes are banned in Lake Tahoe. Took all the value out of two strokes in this area, affected a lot of jet skis. When the law was implemented several years ago, it was discussed as the future arriving and that we would soon see the same thing at Donner Lake. None of that has come true to date.

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two-stroke engine bans 12 Jun 2012 06:09 #16

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Brad is correct, two strokes are banned at Lake Tahoe. Took all the resale value out of two strokes in this area and got a lot of jet skis off of Tahoe. When the law went into effect several years ago, it was discussed as the future arriving and that it would soon apply at Donner Lake also. None of that has come true to date and in this area, the ban remains only at Lake Tahoe.

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two-stroke engine bans 12 Jun 2012 06:41 #17

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No expert on the subject here, but I was under the impression that these bans were on non-fuel-injected two-strokes.

Regarding the Capri, it's a great starter boat, but I think I would look for an I/O...

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two-stroke engine bans 12 Jun 2012 10:56 #18

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jeffw;694492 wrote: No expert on the subject here, but I was under the impression that these bans were on non-fuel-injected two-strokes.

Regarding the Capri, it's a great starter boat, but I think I would look for an I/O...


I agree with Jeff, look for a I/O,since most of your boating will be on lakes with bans. Buying a 2000 Capri with a O/B like mine,switching over to a EFI or 4 stroke would probally be cost prohibative.
BTW The 2000 Capri is a great boat!

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two-stroke engine bans 12 Jun 2012 17:25 #19

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If anybody has anything else to add, I'm all ears!

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two-stroke engine bans 12 Jun 2012 18:02 #20

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my 2c to that as my last boat was OB powered and the current one is a 3l I/O but it's an unfair comparison as the OB was stone age with tons of hours.
We had nothing but problems with the OB and it did cost us quite a bit to get it to a stage where it wasn't just trouble to go boating so I am a bit (or a lot) negative biased here.
The nice thing with OB's is that you don't have the engine inside the boat where gas fumes can accumulate and when you start the engine boom if you aren't careful. In both types you have the fuel tank inside the boat so there isn't a difference.
The OB's are usually lighter than an I/O which makes the boat less stern heavy but it really depends on the engine type.
OB's are usually pretty cramped inside which makes service difficult but with an I/O the quarters can (and usually are) pretty crowded too which makes it a PITA to reach everything. Not valid for the small bayliners, I have surprisingly good access to the engine and from the pictures that's still valid for the 2012 models. Disadvantage: you have that big hole in the transom where the drive goes through which can leak as well as the steering and controls of the outdrive.

Would I buy an OB again? yes, but only a 4-stroke.
Would I buy an I/O again? yes, but I would be hesitant to buy a modern one with EFI but don't ask me why.....

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two-stroke engine bans 13 Jun 2012 00:13 #21

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I am assuming the ban is purely due to the oil in the water from a 2 stroke? It would seem strange to ban 2 strokes when you have diesels puffing out smoke and oil as well. Please don't take offence all you diesel owners

I have had both 2 stroke OB and now have an I/O.

One thing is the Power rating, my 190HP I/O would equate to a 150HP O/B which is more economical and much lighter so really I need the extra 40Hp to move the extra weight as efficiently as the OB would.

The above post covers most of my thoughts however the I/O does take up some good space inside the boat. I seem to be one of the few who have the V6 I/O which I love, the power over the 3L is very noticeable and for water sports is fantastic. Yes you do use some more fuel but hey it is still a cheap family day out and the V6 sounds great.

Theres my 2c worth

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Tony.
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two-stroke engine bans 13 Jun 2012 01:28 #22

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There are Federal laws that ban PWC that are not direct injected. There are also lakes that do not allows 2 cycle motors at all. California has some tough rules for carb'd 2 cycle motors.

The fact of the matter is, a 2 stroke puts about 25% of the lube oil into the water. On a 100 gallon tank at 50:1 ratio that's about two qts straight onto the water.

Now imagine what mess it would be if you multiply that over a thousand boats on a long weekend. Lots of oil on the water.

It's a good thing in the end.

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two-stroke engine bans 13 Jun 2012 02:51 #23

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that's why I never understood why the big US manufacturers of OB's put everything in the development of oil-injected 2-strokes and re-badged Japanese 4-stroke OB's as theirs. The writing was rightfully on the wall. Sure, the 4-strokes are more expensive to manufacture and have a worse power to weight ratio but that doesn't help if the 2-strokes pollute a lot more.

That's one of the reasons I didn't get a boat with OB engine. All the used ones I found had 2-strokes except for one and it looked like it had 1000h on the clock.

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Jürgen
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two-stroke engine bans 13 Jun 2012 13:08 #24

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kjs;694849 wrote: that's why I never understood why the big US manufacturers of OB's put everything in the development of oil-injected 2-strokes and re-badged Japanese 4-stroke OB's as theirs. The writing was rightfully on the wall. Sure, the 4-strokes are more expensive to manufacture and have a worse power to weight ratio but that doesn't help if the 2-strokes pollute a lot more.

That's one of the reasons I didn't get a boat with OB engine. All the used ones I found had 2-strokes except for one and it looked like it had 1000h on the clock.

Oil injected O/B's have been around for over 20years, Fuel injected O/B's around 10 or more. Matter of fact hardly anyone makes carbed 2 stroke O/B's anymore. If my 90hp carbed goes terminal, and the boat is still in good shape,I would go with a new 90 OPTIMAX Merc. As I travel here in the south I see more and more BIG BOATS with O/B's, 2 or 3 275hp to 350hp. 4Str O/B's weigh more than a 2str,but the performance is right up there with most 2strs and they are QUIET. BTW... I am not a fan of I/O's!

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two-stroke engine bans 13 Jun 2012 18:19 #25

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When I bought my '12, I had the choice between the 2 stroke 90 and the 4 stroke 90 on the lot. There was only 24lbs difference between the two. I see mostly outboards around here, aside from the big yachts. On salt it's just plain easier on maintenance and upkeep.

FISHIN00;694907 wrote: Oil injected O/B's have been around for over 20years, Fuel injected O/B's around 10 or more. Matter of fact hardly anyone makes carbed 2 stroke O/B's anymore. If my 90hp carbed goes terminal, and the boat is still in good shape,I would go with a new 90 OPTIMAX Merc. As I travel here in the south I see more and more BIG BOATS with O/B's, 2 or 3 275hp to 350hp. 4Str O/B's weigh more than a 2str,but the performance is right up there with most 2strs and they are QUIET. BTW... I am not a fan of I/O's!

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