The original COF returns for a visit....and talk Risers

[Pura Vida]

First, as a previous member of BOC, I'd like to say hello to my old friends from the past. I was 3488Stuart when I had my Bayliner, but I traded it in back in '06 on a 42 Ocean Alexander. I lost brand identity with Bayliner after that, and drifted away from active involvement in BOC, although I continue to maintain friendships with a number of BOC members to this day.

Although I have been inactive, I have continued to look in from time to time to see what was happening and who was doing what. Hard to kill an old habit I guess. But last week I found myself lurking with specific intent. I found evidence of dripping from one of my risers, and that's a real problem because I have 400hp 6V-53 Detroits, each with twin turbos, so I have a lot at stake. When I removed the offending riser and looked inside of that 10 year old can, there were several small holes in the internal plate separating incoming water from the exhaust, and the holes were allowing water to drain towards the turbo each time the engine was shut down. That is because residual water in the top portion of the can needs to drain after the engine quits pumping water, and there is no longer any exhaust pressure to blow it away.

So then I pulled the other three risers and realized that my entire exhaust system was failing due to corrosion, and I was beginning to actually get water into one of the other turbos. Seawater had already rotted out a 1/4" size hole in the turbo exhaust housing below the rotor blades. There goes $750 for a rebuilt turbo, not to mention the risers.

What made me look in on BOC? Hunger for local Pacific NW information and solutions. I had posted on www.boatdiesel.com and got some very informative information from Tony Athens (who some of you might know is a well regarded exhaust fabricator in California). Unfortunately I was not comfortable having a new exhaust system designed in California based solely on my measurements, and then shipped to me in a box with a thank you note and a hearty Hi-Ho Silver. But I do have to give Tony a big thank you for pointing out a major flaw in the design of my risers: high probability of turbo and/or engine failure at the point where internal corrosion and subsequent holes can/will provide a path for water to enter the turbos. He staunchly supports dry exhaust past the highest point in the riser, then the introduction of water on the down slope using a mixer or collector (known by several other names as well). As you know, in a double jacket stainless steel riser elbow, the water can be introduced before the elbow, or one can use a single wall elbow with an insulation blanket for heat control, and the water introduced after the elbow. The can style I have now introduces the water above the exhaust inlet inside the can, and has no fail-safe to stop water incursion into the turbo upon internal corrosion failure of that divider plate

I did a BOC search on "risers", and up popped a number of threads on the subject with a lot of interest and activity. And a name new to me was Dave Dooling from Greenwater Exhaust. I had talked to Scott recently, but never to Dave. In a series of e-mails and phone calls, Dave got my attention, sent me pictures that conformed to the design philosophy Tony Athens had introduced me to, and made me a deal that was attractive and complete, including free ceramic coating. His proposal beat out National Marine Exhaust, Marine Exhaust Systems of Florida, and Marine Exhaust Systems of Alabama (separate companies) for replacement of the cans, with a design that I believe frees me from ever worrying again about water incursion into the turbos or engines.

Since there was a lot of interest in risers on BOC, notably due to all the aging Hinos and soon to follow Cummins, and you know Dave and might like to see his work, I thought I'd photograph this whole process from start to finish and post the story here, hoping it will be of interest to all with future riser decisions to make. I know you do not have Detroits, but a riser is a riser in a marine exhaust system.

Below are some pictures of the current system (and the boat itself if you're interested). Dave will be up here the first of the week to measure it all out and then begin the fabrication process. I will update this thread as new information/pictures present themselves. Hope you gain something from the process that is useful to you, and again, a warm hello to all.







And here is what my sweetheart 3488 went to a new owner for:

[dmcb]

Glad to see you back Stuart. As you know once a BOC'er, always one.
I was on this OA last fall and will say it likely is better than it was new.
Stuart does that to a boat.
If anyone wants one, when this last project is finished, it likely will be for sale. Stuart does that ya know.
I think he likes the projects better than boating.
I think.
Glad to see you post again Stuart.
Doug

[SomeSailor]

Hey Stuart!

Was just talking about you yesterday. Having a laugh over the generator sound test of many moons ago. What a beautiful boat you have there. Would love to see more of it during your refit.

Glad to hear you're doing well and staying busy as usual. Stop by IBNW sometime and say Hi if ya get the chance.

[Pura Vida]

Hi Doug, thanks for the welcome. Will be fun to connect on as well as off-line for a change. Maybe Tally and Puget Mike will join in the frey and we can start a new ruckus or something. Strat won't mind . BTW, hope this crowd doesn't mind that I am a defector.

Mike, you are making me hungry for some beer and brats. What a funny event that genny test was as I look back on it. Would love to hook up with you, give you an OA tour, down a few beers, whatever. Maybe we could talk radar or something...... . (I suspect not many here are going to understand that joke, haha.) Maybe I should sponsor a La Conner cruise this spring and we all can relive some good times. We'll see.

[Roel Jansen]

Oh yes, here is one too who knows! Also asked my self what came out of the project you had about the synchronising?

Glad to hear all is well except some technical stuff but that's money and not health. All well with the doggy?, I remember that horror story!
and your wife of course! Very nice boat! Seems like a keeper to me!

[dmcb]

Well Roel I can tell you the doggie is fine.
And has a large bag of tricks.
Doug

[SomeSailor]

Originally Posted by Pura Vida

Would love to hook up with you, give you an OA tour, down a few beers, whatever. Maybe we could talk radar or something...... .

I'll sure take ya up on that sometime. Pass me a cell number or something in email (somesailor@gmail.com) and I'll give ya a shout next time we're in the area. I'm guessing there's not much problem with a boat the size of yours having any problem with bow rise anyhow. What a beauty.

I've gotten a few new toys since you've been gone. Shoot me an email and I'll tell ya more. Good to hear from ya again. Sure miss the old "controversial" days. We had some great technical discussions for sure... but believe or not I did listen and learn. Both you and Doug have been great for that.

Who ended up with your 3488?

[Pura Vida]

Hi Roel. Jessie is doing fine and no problems left over from that 20' fall she took. Besides, we have to keep her in good health so she will be around to meet you when you come to compare our tulips to yours some day. Funny, we both live in two of the major tulip centers of the world.

The project you refer to was the electronic throttle controls to replace the Bayliner cable systems. It's too bad that we were unable to take it beyond prototype, but Matt (3888Matt) was in conflict with ever increasing commitments at Microsoft. It was just a great idea at a bad time. I can tell you that for over a year, the electronic system on my 3488 worked flawlessly. The auto sync feature was especially nice, allowing just one throttle to precisely control both engines (+/_ 10 rpm). But the new purchaser was not willing to sign a release of liability and I did not want anything left over I had to support, so I pulled the controls off and reinstalled the cables. I thought that was a shame because it was a 30-minute job to switch back to the cable system, which was just tied off to the side as a system back up. Going back to the cables was like going back for sloppy seconds, but I understood he did not have any reason to be confident in the electronic system as it was a prototype.

Good to hear from you.

SS, I will fire off an email with my numbers to you this morning. Mine is (stuart.thornton@wavecable.com) so you have it. Be very interested in your new "toys" and hear what you have been doing. Have noted that you are still heading up the IBNW ship, which I have looked in on from time to time. You have done a nice job on it. And trust me, I learned a lot from our exchanges too, and had a lot of fun "fencing" with you. We should at least have been paid for sheer entertainment value.

The 3488 was sold by Dan Byrd at Banana Belt to Russ Murkowski from Blain. After I gave him an orientation on the boat, I never talked to him again, so I don't have any follow on data.

[Russ]

Good morning Stuart,


I am the purchaser of your 34 bayliner. The wife and I enjoyed it a lot this past season, thank you for keeping it nice while you were the owner. It is in hibernation right now at Birch Bay (near Blaine, WA). Sorry about the electronic throttles, I dont particularly like the old cable throttles but a prototype is still a prototype.

As I have gotten to know the boat better, I even more appreciate all of the hard work you put into it. The only thing you didn't tell me was that when you get to close to the beach its hard on the props

Hope to see you on the water some day, you are always welcome to come see your old friend, Baysfinale.

Russ

[dumluck53]

Yo Stuart!

Great to hear from ya! Thanks for the heads up on the exhaust system. I learn sumpin' new here every day thanks to guys like you.

Hope all is well, stay in touch!